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War on coal

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Of course it's worth the price. It makes electricity cheaper, or it wouldn't be mined.
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Pssst... electricity -should- be expensive, so we use less of it.

Did'nt you know that the widespread availability of cheap electricity does nothing but perpetuate the affluenza of the free world!?!?!?!?
 
Goobieman said:
Ah -- the usual envirofascist claim of the moral high ground.

"Clean" air and water do not exist. Never have, never will.
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No, actually, that's a valid point.

The company stripping the mountain is morally obligated to ensure that the neighboring properties are not adversely affected by their actions, or pay due compensation for damages.

Basic libertarian principle.
 
Arch Enemy said:
Because your statistic still does not make up for the fact that the place where I live is being rampaged. It doesn't make up for the fact that farmers are having to leave farming because the sediments have polluted their water supplies.
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So move, or buy the next mountain that has coal under it, that way you would actualy have something to say about what is done with that land.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
No, actually, that's a valid point.
The company stripping the mountain is morally obligated to ensure that the neighboring properties are not adversely affected by their actions, or pay due compensation for damages.
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That's all well and good, and in principle, I do not disagree -- but it doesnt really have all that much to do with what I said. My point is that the object of the 'clean air' argument isn't the cleanliness of the environment, but the elimination of certain activities.
 
Coal seam fire

A coal seam fire or mine fire is the underground smouldering of a coal deposit, often in a coal mine. Such fires have economic, social and ecological impacts. They are often started by lightning, grass, or forest fires, and are particularly insidious because they continue to smoulder underground after surface fires have been extinguished, sometimes for many years, before flaring up and restarting forest and brush fires nearby. They propagate in a creeping fashion along mine shafts and cracks in geologic structures.

Coal fires are a serious problem because hazards to health and safety and the environment include toxic fumes, reigniting grass, brush, or forest fires, and subsidence of surface infrastructure such as roads, pipelines, electric lines, bridge supports, buildings and homes. Whether started by humans or by natural causes, coal seam fires continue to burn for decades or even centuries until either the fuel source is exhausted; a permanent groundwater table is encountered; the depth of the burn becomes greater than the ground’s capacity to subside and vent; or humans intervene. Because they burn underground, coal seam fires are extremely difficult and costly to extinguish, and are unlikely to be suppressed by rainfall.[1] There are strong similarities between coal fires and peat fires.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_seam_fire]Coal seam fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Centralia is a borough and ghost town in Columbia County, Pennsylvania, United States. Its population has dwindled from over 1,000 residents in 1981 to 12 in 2005[1] and 9 in 2007,[2] as a result of a mine fire burning beneath the borough since 1962. Centralia is now the least-populous municipality in Pennsylvania, with four fewer residents than the borough of S.N.P.J.

Centralia is part of the Bloomsburg–Berwick Micropolitan Statistical Area.

Centralia, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Very impressive work, much much MUCH more impressive than littering the California Grapevine with umbrellas.

Who's the artist?
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Cristo was the artist and it did not have the environmental impact that coal mining does.
 
winston53660 said:
Cristo was the artist and it did not have the environmental impact that coal mining does.
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Cristo wan't all that impressive and he never had the economic impact coal mining does.

And "who's the artist" refers to the men who carved the mountains, not the Wrapper Dude.
 
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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
That's why we should go nuclear.

There's no unresolved problems with nuclear power, expect the vexing one of how to make the idiots opposed to nuclear power stop breeding.
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Except for this one… not so tiny problem; we have 75,000 metric tons of "nuclear waste” stored at Yucca Mountain, in highly corrosive iron casks.

Question; what do our great grandchildren do when they corrode? Sometimes we have to quit kicking the can down the road.
 
donc said:
Except for this one… not so tiny problem; we have 75,000 metric tons of "nuclear waste” stored at Yucca Mountain, in highly corrosive iron casks.

Question; what do our great grandchildren do when they corrode? Sometimes we have to quit kicking the can down the road.
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Send it to Iran to be refined.....;)
 
Coon County said:
Send it to Iran to be refined.....;)
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I’m not apposed to nuclear fuel, what I’m apposed to is when they cut funding on how they can get the 1% plutonium out of it, which sells for around $1000/kg.


It would also be nice if we could have some viable research on how to make something that has a half-life of 6,500,000 years give or take a few million, harmless. :roll:
 
Middleground said:
Apdst, there is no way in hell that one can replace a mountain top after it has been blown to smithereens. The damage is permanent, and the ecology is permanently changed. What they are doing here -- as evident in Gill's pictures -- is essentially no different than laying carpet over a beat up floor.
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Well, hell, ya'll don't want to drill, ya'll don't want to mine, ya'll don't want to harvest timber. What the hell are we supposed to do? Sit in the dark, wrapped with a blanket, reading Marx by candlelight? I guess putting people back to work just isn't worth it to come folks. You got your's and **** everyone else, right?

What about the places where strip mines are being operated and there aren't any mountains? Shut those down, too.
 
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apdst said:
Well, hell, ya'll don't want to drill, ya'll don't want to mine, ya'll don't want to harvest timber. What the hell are we supposed to do? Sit in the dark, wrapped with a blanket, reading Marx by candlelight? I guess putting people back to work just isn't worth it to come folks. You got your's and **** everyone else, right?

What about the places where strip mines are being operated and there aren't any mountains? Shut those down, too.
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How about mining the hot air your constantly spewing. :rofl
 
donc said:
I’m not apposed to nuclear fuel, what I’m apposed to is when they cut funding on how they can get the 1% plutonium out of it, which sells for around $1000/kg.


It would also be nice if we could have some viable research on how to make something that has a half-life of 6,500,000 years give or take a few million, harmless. :roll:
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They are still studying Dick Cheney......:)
 
donc said:
I’m not apposed to nuclear fuel, what I’m apposed to is when they cut funding on how they can get the 1% plutonium out of it, which sells for around $1000/kg.


It would also be nice if we could have some viable research on how to make something that has a half-life of 6,500,000 years give or take a few million, harmless. :roll:
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We could start by separating isotopes so that the longer half-life stuff can be sent to the friggin moon, while the shorter half-life stuff can be buried in the ocean.

Hell, send it all to the moon. No damaging any environments up there.
 
reefedjib said:
Hell, send it all to the moon. No damaging any environments up there.
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937275.gif


Hhmm...I don't know this just don't look quite right.:shock:
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Cristo wan't all that impressive and he never had the economic impact coal mining does.

And "who's the artist" refers to the men who carved the mountains, not the Wrapper Dude.
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Robert Smithson did something interesting

spiral-jetty.jpg


I do not find coal mining as interesting.
 
apdst said:
Well, hell, ya'll don't want to drill, ya'll don't want to mine, ya'll don't want to harvest timber. What the hell are we supposed to do? Sit in the dark, wrapped with a blanket, reading Marx by candlelight?
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In a word: Yes.
 
donc said:
How about mining the hot air your constantly spewing. :rofl
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adpst raises a good point, to which you totally ignore. We are constantly told today that we can not have the abundant, cheap energy sources that we now rely on for our daily lives. All of this on the premise that we transition to sources that are as of yet, known, tested, proven, let alone established as viable.

In order to do this, or FORCE this upon the population as a whole, the current administration, coupled with the same enviro-terrorists that blow up car dealerships, and burn high end housing developments are employing some utopian view of something that they think is doing good, but is seeking to lessen the standard of living, and threaten the very lives of some humans in the scope of a greater good in their minds.

I, from what I see don't like MTR any more than anyone else, and as someone that travels the 'coal run highway' through TN and KY every week I know that the economic impact to the towns like Pikeville KY, and alike would be devastating at this time.

We need to pursue ALL forms of energy independence from the sources that are working against us as enemies today, but smiling like the crack dealer as they continue to take our money. That includes opening up our own resource, until we have something proven to take its place.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
We need to pursue ALL forms of energy independence from the sources that are working against us as enemies today....
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As far as generating electicity goes, we are very much energy independent.
 
We can't use coal because it's dirty.

We can't use nuclear energy because it's too dangerous.

We can't use natural gas because it emits too much CO2.

We can't use solar because the panels might bother a tortoise in the desert.

We can't use windmills because it disrupts the Kennedy's view of the ocean.

We can't use hydroelectric because it might upset a snail darter (obscure little fish that no one knows or cares about).

Sounds like we're running out of options, that is if we leave it up to the environmental wackos.
 
Middleground said:
Oh, yeah, they look as beautiful as ever! Check this out:

MTRsteps.jpg


Bye bye mountains for ever! But hey, what's the point in caring if it's not your view, water, and ecology that's being permanently damaged!

Mountain Justice - What is Mountain Top Removal Mining?





Is it worth permanently damaging such beauty and ecology for a few lumps of coal? Is it worth permanently damaging the area's ecology just to put a few people to work?

To me, no way.
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So we should live in caves and not so much as build a road because it scars the land? And I suppose when a monsoon or hurricane changes the faces of the land, it's okay right? Tell me why the coal is there in the first place. I mean since it's not there for our use, why it is there?
 
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