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Thread: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

  1. #71
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Where do you get that from?...

    1. I've never seen a prosperous company lay people off. If a company is producing more goods and services, they're going to need all their employees to handle the increase in business volume.
    Form a thing called reality.

    Lets look back in history. In the 1990s GM had BILLIONS in profit per quarter, and yet it laid off people at a near constant pace. Yes it moved its production to Mexico and other places, but that does not change the fact, that GM had mega profits and laid off American workers at a constant pace for decades.

    Lets look at today. Electrolux, one of the biggest home appliance companies in the world, had profits jump 6 fold last quarter and yet it is cutting 3000 jobs world wide, 850 in the US alone. Why? Because they are moving production to cheaper locations (aka 3rd. world countries). Again, higher profit does not mean jobs will stay in the US or Sweden (its a Swedish company)

    Or how about IBM. In 2005 IBM fired 10 to 15k workers world wide, so to "improve the profit". It had a healthy profit margin already and 7 billion in the bank at the time, but it wanted more, so it fired 10 to 15k workers worldwide to save 1 billion dollars. So again your theory falls apart.

    Companies downsize constantly despite higher profit or/and revenue. Usually they do it by moving the production to a 3rd world country, and they do it to up the over all profit and keep shareholders happy. Workers are never a consideration for said companies (relatively speaking). And no I aint saying it is a bad thing (or good), just pointing out a fact.

    2. The only way that increased revenue won't mean inreased profit, is if there is some sorta catastrophic shortfall that wasn't foreseen, or, the company was orginized in such a way to not make money, to begin with.
    Wrong again. Companies often have increased revenue but decreased profits. Things like currency exchange rates, strikes, higher commodity costs, and so on, all hit the profit margin. For example during the 140 dollar oil period. Companies could easily have increased sales and hence revenue, but that oil price cut into profit margins considerably.

    And then there are the companies who are bloated with cost.. GM comes to mind.
    PeteEU

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Form a thing called reality.

    Lets look back in history. In the 1990s GM had BILLIONS in profit per quarter, and yet it laid off people at a near constant pace. Yes it moved its production to Mexico and other places, but that does not change the fact, that GM had mega profits and laid off American workers at a constant pace for decades.
    You just answered your own question. People in the states were laid off, because GM moved plants to other countries, where people in thos countries were given jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You have the understand that hding money and stealing money, are two different things. It's not illegal to hide money. I do it all the time.
    Keep digging apdst.

    (If the guy made a profit for the company, when thy only expect a 6% profit margin, then he most certainly earned it.) Now you follow that up with. (its not illegal to hide money,I do it all the time).

    Who you who you hiding it from, the IRS? Is it drug money your hiding? is it offshore?Do you do bushiness with the Gnomes of Zürich
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You just answered your own question. People in the states were laid off, because GM moved plants to other countries, where people in thos countries were given jobs.
    Keep digging that hole. You know as well as I do, the only jobs that count are the ones in your own country, not in a 3rd world country. Dont try to hide behind globalization and excuse the acts of companies like GM and others for cutting jobs in the US (and Europe) while racking up billions in profits year after year.

    As you stated people without jobs dont spend, hence laying off people in the US (or Europe) will mean less consumption in the very market that those companies sell a majority of their products in. But I am guessing that you are one of those "they can get another different job" types.. well in the real world that is more than often not the case at least in the short term. You wont have a guy working for GM have the same spending habits if he got a job at McD. And you cant have a guy working for GM instantly turning over and becoming a doctor, or nurse, or start his own tech company.
    PeteEU

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Diminished credit availability causes spending (necessary for cash flow) to decrease almost in an exponential fashion.
    Well, you have to look at what credit is. First of all, it's not money. Credit is never money and represents no currency. What it is is a "deferred payment", a "contract". Anytime you use someone elses asset and agree to pay later is credit. It has nothing to do with cash flow and everything to do with increasing consumption.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Keep digging that hole. You know as well as I do, the only jobs that count are the ones in your own country, not in a 3rd world country. Dont try to hide behind globalization and excuse the acts of companies like GM and others for cutting jobs in the US (and Europe) while racking up billions in profits year after year.
    whoa, did he strike a nerve? lol

    Still, I don't see why you would marginalize that as an excuse. With the onset of globalization, it sounds exactly what companies would do if they found it too costly to give americans jobs.
    As you stated people without jobs dont spend,
    Unless they have credit cards. I don't know about spain but, in the US, people use credit cards en masse, even when they can't afford it(or especially when they can't afford it); hence, the current credit crises.
    hence laying off people in the US (or Europe) will mean less consumption in the very market that those companies sell a majority of their products in.
    True, but there are 300 million people in the US, so these companies have plenty of other people to sell to outside their own employees.
    But I am guessing that you are one of those "they can get another different job" types..
    Well yea, In America, the average american will hold 9 jobs in their life time, and that's expected to rise to 13.

    well in the real world that is more than often not the case at least in the short term.
    Maybe in your part of the world.
    You wont have a guy working for GM have the same spending habits if he got a job at McD.
    Idk, I've seen McD workers have a lot of stuff despite their earnings.
    And you cant have a guy working for GM instantly turning over and becoming a doctor, or nurse, or start his own tech company.
    even though that has happened.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Keep digging that hole. You know as well as I do, the only jobs that count are the ones in your own country, not in a 3rd world country. Dont try to hide behind globalization and excuse the acts of companies like GM and others for cutting jobs in the US (and Europe) while racking up billions in profits year after year.
    Umm, maybe if you want to ignore a little thing called economics. You do know that shipping jobs overseas is a result of overpriced labor here due to unions and minimum wage. By paying jobs what they are really worth, costs are contained and prices are held at steady levels.

    There's a place for benevolence and it's at a charity, not in business.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    With out credit business will refuse to invest in new technologies, labor, take risks.
    Wait....waht? Borrowing money is the only way to invest in capital? really? is that your argument?

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, if anything, I'm calling for de-regulation of the insurance industry, to spur competition and lower insurance rates. That would make too much sense and be waaaaaay too easy, so of course the Libbos aren't going to do that.
    So am I understanding this correctly?
    You believe the current 6% profit margin is ridiculous to operate under and at the same time you think they should charge less and lower their profits?
    From the ashes.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Wait....waht? Borrowing money is the only way to invest in capital? really? is that your argument?
    No that is not my argument.

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