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Thread: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

  1. #141
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    If you feel it's unjust, don't use an insurance company.
    The original statement was that "For Profit health care" is unethical. I have no problem with doctors, nurses, hospitals or even *gasp* insurance companies making a profit.


    I view it as the rest of the world doesn't have a problem with government control of their lives, they are used to it. We [the United States] are *supposed* to be a free country built on individual liberty government controlled health care goes directly against that concept.


    No other country models their health care after ours because they don't need to. When their system fails they run here and get the care they need. Paying full price for it at that. We have the best doctors, the largest quantity of equipment and facilities, and the most advanced equipment specifically because some "greedy bastard" whats to make some money.
    I would be more than happy to exclude the insurance company if the doctors and hospitals agree to treat me at the same price I would pay to an insurance company. Few people could pay cash for health care because they will be charged exorbitant rates. So your proposal seems unrealistic.

    I don't mind profit but profit is too superficial to stand in the way of treating people when they are sick. Conservatives must learn one lesson if they are ever going to revive their dying party: whenever the conflict rears its ugly head you must always support human beings over corporations; people over profits. By allowing Haliburton and the banks to rip off Americans; conservatives got their buts kicked by the voters.

    Americans want regulated "freedom"; that's why we adopted a Constitution instead of the Articles of Confederation. Too much freedom just like too much regulation is dangerous. I don't want to pay high health insurance premiums or get denied coverage when I'm sick just because some cowboys want to pound their chest about capitalism and the great American way. Leave the cliches behind and let's begin to run this country pragmatically and strategically.

    Foreign countries are not adopting our health care model because it does not work. We pay the highest fees and get some of the worst results. Some parts of America have infant mortality rates of third world countries. Foreigners are not flocking to America to use our insurance system. They use our hospitals and doctors that have unique abilities but our health insurance system is outdated and needs to be traded in and demolished like a "cash-for-clunker".
    Last edited by 10thJustice; 10-30-09 at 02:11 AM.
    "the question is whether the people of the United States are to govern through representatives chosen by their unbiased suffrages or whether the money and power of a great corporation are to be secretly exerted to influence their judgment and control their decisions." Andrew Jackson

  2. #142
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    I would be more than happy to exclude the insurance company if the doctors and hospitals agree to treat me at the same price I would pay to an insurance company.

    Same price? Hell, in today's market, most if not all in the health field will give substantial discounts for cash.


    j-mac
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Same price? Hell, in today's market, most if not all in the health field will give substantial discounts for cash.


    j-mac
    This is certainly true of my dentist. Although he says to keep it on the down low - I wonder if the insurance agreements require him charge the same for cash as insurance and they just do it anyway. If this is widespread it means those with insurance are paying higher prices due to those without insurance (that's a duh), so the mandate to carry insurance is a good thing. The government option is the only fair way to implement a mandate and not have it end up being government welfare to insurance companies.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    This is certainly true of my dentist. Although he says to keep it on the down low - I wonder if the insurance agreements require him charge the same for cash as insurance and they just do it anyway. If this is widespread it means those with insurance are paying higher prices due to those without insurance (that's a duh), so the mandate to carry insurance is a good thing. The government option is the only fair way to implement a mandate and not have it end up being government welfare to insurance companies.


    no, no, no, NO! A government option is not an option at all. For weeks everyone on this board, and even democrats themselves have tried to ram down this country's throat that this monstrosity of a bill would help the nation, increase competition, and lower the deficit. All lies.

    I have posted numerous times the words of demo congress people all saying that this is in essence a trojan horse to a single payer government run system.

    This is ignored. If you really want competition, then open up insurance sales to a nation wide status.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Same price? Hell, in today's market, most if not all in the health field will give substantial discounts for cash.


    j-mac
    You must be talking about the prices doctors charge for a checkup. But a large number of Americans are not receiving discounts for cash as you suggest:

    "Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine." Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

    Let's be realistic enough to admit that there are some medical bills that the average, middle-class, family living in America simply could not afford. In these cases we need insurance to cover the cost of keeping us alive. This is a basic component of the social contract recognized by almost every civilized nation in this world. But for some reason American conservatives have regressed into a pre-civil society where each man provided for his own health care. You know, the era when life expectancy was about 50 years old. I want all conservatives to be warned: when you want to return to the past; time will pass you by. The American people are bypassing the conservatives who yearn for yesterday.

    Let us get rid of the employee-based health care system. That was for the old, industrial era. Small businesses, which create most jobs, are not offering health care. So many working people go without insurance; the employee-based system does not cover them. So we must start to think outside the box and get more people covered at affordable prices. And the only way to do this is through a Public Option.
    "the question is whether the people of the United States are to govern through representatives chosen by their unbiased suffrages or whether the money and power of a great corporation are to be secretly exerted to influence their judgment and control their decisions." Andrew Jackson

  6. #146
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    What makes you think a public option is going to be more affordable?
    From the ashes.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    I would be more than happy to exclude the insurance company if the doctors and hospitals agree to treat me at the same price I would pay to an insurance company. Few people could pay cash for health care because they will be charged exorbitant rates. So your proposal seems unrealistic.
    So you want the advantages of insurance without ......
    Wait a minute if you are willing to pay the doctor what insurance costs why don't you just PAY FOR INSURANCE?

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    I don't mind profit but profit is too superficial to stand in the way of treating people when they are sick. Conservatives must learn one lesson if they are ever going to revive their dying party: whenever the conflict rears its ugly head you must always support human beings over corporations; people over profits. By allowing Haliburton and the banks to rip off Americans; conservatives got their buts kicked by the voters.
    I wonder if the 250 million insured people in the United States would agree that profit is superficial. While liberal rhetoric would have you believe Conservatives believe in corporations over people, the truth is conservative believe less government control is the best way for the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    Americans want regulated "freedom"; that's why we adopted a Constitution instead of the Articles of Confederation. Too much freedom just like too much regulation is dangerous. I don't want to pay high health insurance premiums or get denied coverage when I'm sick just because some cowboys want to pound their chest about capitalism and the great American way. Leave the cliches behind and let's begin to run this country pragmatically and strategically.
    There are countries full of people that feel exactly as you. This just happens not to be one of them. They aren't just cliches, they are the way we want to live. The way of life ourselves and our family members have fought to preserve. If freedom means I don't get health care at some point in my life, so be it. at least I will not have callouses where the chains resided.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    Foreign countries are not adopting our health care model because it does not work. We pay the highest fees and get some of the worst results. Some parts of America have infant mortality rates of third world countries. Foreigners are not flocking to America to use our insurance system. They use our hospitals and doctors that have unique abilities but our health insurance system is outdated and needs to be traded in and demolished like a "cash-for-clunker".
    It's been widely proven that the infant mortality numbers aren't accurate because of reporting differences. We can't even decide within our own country when life begins...........
    Did you know that the United States has the longest life expectancy if you remove lifestyle factors like automobile deaths and firearm deaths?

    Foreigners aren't flocking here to use our insurance? Hell a person from ALABAMA can't get insurance from IOWA. You think a foreigner can?
    Last edited by Phoenix; 10-31-09 at 12:52 AM.
    From the ashes.

  8. #148
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    Most businesses time their expenses with their revenues. Its a procedure known as "matching". If a business receives its revenues during a certain time of the year its policies will require claims to be submitted after the revenues are received.
    This would be a failure as a business practice. You would be trusting that the money would be coming in to pay your bills. It would take 1 month for enough people to stiff you or be late on their payment or cancel their policy and you would be broke....unless you had some working capital. Oh I forgot you are an Obama guy. I guy if they didn't have enough money they could just call king Obama. He's all about some corporate welfare.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    If expenses outweigh revenues at some point then the business fails; and if you have to deny claims and charge excessive premiums to make a profit; then you no longer have a viable business model. In which case your business deserves to fail.
    Have you ever heard of or considered "Unexpected Expenses"? Those are things like the motor blows in the company truck, The air conditioner bites the dust, a company loses a lawsuit, in business expenses outweigh revenues sometimes. It whether you are prepared for them that will determine if the business fails.


    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    You are one of the few people in America who will benefit from insurance profits more than you will benefit from insurance reform. The only thing I can tell you is that the will of the majority seems to be against you on this one. You may have to concede defeat on this issue.
    Don't be so sure. You might believe the "polls" but I don't. The same party own the White House, Senate, and House. If the majority is so enamored with this idea it should have been a done deal months ago. Fact is it's not being greeted with the "Yes We Can" Attitude it was thought it would. They forgot about the 250 million people that DO have insurance and DO get health care.
    From the ashes.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    What makes you think a public option is going to be more affordable?
    Congressional studies have indicated that more than 30% of each health care dollar goes to administrative costs, marketing and profits for private insurers. These costs, however, are not carried by a public insurer. So the Public Option can operate 30% cheaper than a private insurer. And furthermore, a national pool of policyholders can spread cost over many people which will keep premiums low. Hospitals will not have to pass along the cost of treating the uninsured to patients that are privately insured. So, even those who like their current private plans will benefit from a Public Option.
    Last edited by 10thJustice; 10-31-09 at 01:01 AM.
    "the question is whether the people of the United States are to govern through representatives chosen by their unbiased suffrages or whether the money and power of a great corporation are to be secretly exerted to influence their judgment and control their decisions." Andrew Jackson

  10. #150
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    Congressional studies have indicated that more than 30% of each health care dollar goes to administrative costs, marketing and profits for private insurers. These costs, however, are not carried by a public insurer. So the Public Option can operate 30% cheaper than a private insurer. And furthermore, a national pool of policyholders can spread cost over many people which will keep premiums low.
    Do you realize that is last months left wing rhetoric? The Congressional Budget office has come out and said the ACTUAL plans being considered will cost MORE than current plans.
    Link HERE
    It's not even close to the "free ride" lefty leaders have been selling.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thJustice View Post
    Hospitals will not have to pass along the cost of treating the uninsured to patients that are privately insured. So, even those who like their current private plans will benefit from a Public Option.
    So hospitals will get there money for the "uninsured" who are actually now insured from where?
    The Government.
    And the government get it's money from where?
    The citizens.
    So at the very least it's a wash.
    From the ashes.

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