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Thread: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

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    Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/wo..._r=1&ref=world

    BAGHDAD — For the second time in two months, synchronized suicide car bombings struck at the heart of the Iraqi government, severely damaging the Justice Ministry and Provincial Council complexes in Baghdad on Sunday, killing at least 132 people and raising fresh questions about the government’s ability to secure its most vital operations.
    There's still quite a bit of work to be done.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    In principle I believe in live and let live and freedom of religion goes without question. That is until it became clear that radical Islam is not about religion they are about ticking the clock back to the dark ages and making women subservient and in essence slave in every way distorting the teachings of a questionable religion. They has declared a holy war on the west and their moving to take over the world and are well on their way to getting their wish and with the help of people like Obama they'll get there soon.
    If you are one of the fools who claim Islam is a religion of peace please do yourself a favor and take your feeble argument to the special school for retarded people who can't read or think.
    These bombings are killing innocent people who only want peace and a just government. The only solution is going to have to be the rounding up of a great number of religious fanatics and killing every one of them. There is no rule of law the fanatics will obey and the innocent will continue to die if drastic measures are not taken both there and sadly here.
    Watch and learn; Muslim Demographics - Google Videos

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/wo..._r=1&ref=world



    There's still quite a bit of work to be done.
    Absolutely. But it's work they have to do. Iraq is the success story the Arab Middle East have been needing for decades and decades and they don't even see it. The last thing they need is another failure.

    1) They first tried to rebuke the West as if they could be the only region on earth untouched by globalization and progress.

    2) Then they tried pan-Arabism in an attempt to unite Arabs in policies and comraderie. This translated into further embarrassment with the Suez Canal War and shattered the idea of Arab unity.

    3) By the early 70's Arab governments finally began to accept the Israel in their midst and the benefits of being friendly with the West vice the Soviet Union.

    Despite temporary set backs in history, Turkey, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon are all Muslim nations that have progressed and moved on into the modern world. Of these, Turkey started out on its own by abolishing the Sultan in the '20s (thereby ending hundreds of years of Islamic caliphates) and embarking on democracy and westernization. The most progressive being Egypt and Turkey and those are on the fringes of Islam and removed from the Sunni heartland. I believe there is something to this. We often hear how horrible westernization was for the Middle East, but the two Arab nations that were never colonized? Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. And look at them.

    Iraq's population is perfectly positioned to prove once and for all to every single person on earth whether or not a mixture of tribes can get it right in this region. Given Lebanon's attempts gone bad in the 20th century, Iraq is the last of them to try to get it right. Can Middle Eastern populations exist in peace without the brutal oppressions of a dictator or brutal oppressions of a theocracy? Given the chance to progress and create opportunity for all will they opt to slaughter and murder in tribal allegiance above all else?

    Iraq is going to change the world for better or for worse. It's not just a single country with an isolated problem. It is going to prove something to everybody. And the last thing Arabs need is proof that they aren't worth anything other than strict control and oppression. We already know that Sunni Arabs in Saudi Arabia are more upset over the choices their elite make for them rather than their oppression. But can Arabs create a prosperous democratic nation for all Muslims no matter the tribe? The answer will be what they do in Iraq. The majority is Shia. But the Sunni Arabs within will ultimately decide what comes next. And so will the Sunni governments that surround it.
    Last edited by MSgt; 10-25-09 at 05:00 PM.

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    Great post. However I disagree with Afghanistan being listed among "Arab" Nations.

    I think that the real test is coming. Ayatollah Sistani is a very good ally for the United States and very against the Ayatollah charades we see in Iran. However, Sistani is old and will probably die within the next 10 years.

    Currently, Sadr is in Iran going through Ayatollah training. This is a very big problem, if the Shia pop-star Sadr returns and becomes Ayatollah the entire dynamic of Southern Iraq will change.

    The positive I see from this is that it was treated as an A.Q. terrorist attack against the Iraqi state. There are no police men rounding up Sunnis in the sectarian ways we saw a few years ago. There's finally the line between Extremism and Iraqi figures.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Great post. However I disagree with Afghanistan being listed among "Arab" Nations.
    You'd have argument to. Afgfhanistan is a mess of ethnic diversity organized more into clans than tribes. And there is a historical Persian root to be found. But, Afghanistan has had Arab mentality since the late 70s when Saudi Arabia began to establish wahabbist schools. The invasion of the Soviets turned Afghanistan into a Sunni country. The Tali-ban and Al-Queda are Sunni Arab organizations.

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    You'd have argument to. Afgfhanistan is a mess of ethnic diversity organized more into clans than tribes. And there is a historical Persian root to be found. But, Afghanistan has had Arab mentality since the late 70s when Saudi Arabia began to establish wahabbist schools. The invasion of the Soviets turned Afghanistan into a Sunni country. The Tali-ban and Al-Queda are Sunni Arab organizations.
    There are more Muslims outside of the Middle East/ Arabia than within the Middle East.

    The majority of the people are Pashtuns. The taliban has much more in common with Pakistan than Saudi Arabia. They're as different as Germany is to the United States-- sure a similar religion and history, but still different and should treated as such.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    In principle I believe in live and let live and freedom of religion goes without question. That is until it became clear that radical Islam is not about religion they are about ticking the clock back to the dark ages and making women subservient and in essence slave in every way distorting the teachings of a questionable religion. They has declared a holy war on the west and their moving to take over the world and are well on their way to getting their wish and with the help of people like Obama they'll get there soon.
    If you are one of the fools who claim Islam is a religion of peace please do yourself a favor and take your feeble argument to the special school for retarded people who can't read or think.
    These bombings are killing innocent people who only want peace and a just government. The only solution is going to have to be the rounding up of a great number of religious fanatics and killing every one of them. There is no rule of law the fanatics will obey and the innocent will continue to die if drastic measures are not taken both there and sadly here.
    Watch and learn; Muslim Demographics - Google Videos

    You mention radical Islam, then suggest that people who think Islam is a religion of peace are fools. Islam and radical Islam are not the same thing. Also, calling people who do not think like you fools is not likely to cause someone who doesn't already agree with you to give your statements any weight at all.

    Last, can you space your paragraphs? It's hard to read a mashup.

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    You mention radical Islam, then suggest that people who think Islam is a religion of peace are fools. Islam and radical Islam are not the same thing. Also, calling people who do not think like you fools is not likely to cause someone who doesn't already agree with you to give your statements any weight at all.

    Last, can you space your paragraphs? It's hard to read a mashup.
    I just ignored that post. The video he suggested is erroneous beyond recognition.

    People just don't understand that "teaching Muslims the Gospel" is like trying to teach the Gospel to a Baptist Minister. Muslims read the Bible. They believe in the Gospels... sorry for the aside.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    There are more Muslims outside of the Middle East/ Arabia than within the Middle East.
    Which proves that the problems of the Middle East aren't a Muslim thing rather than a regional thing. The further nations, religions, and people (Muslims included) got from Mecca and Medina the healthier they got.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    The majority of the people are Pashtuns. The taliban has much more in common with Pakistan than Saudi Arabia. They're as different as Germany is to the United States-- sure a similar religion and history, but still different and should treated as such.
    Religion and history isn't what makes them "Arab." Remember pan-Arabism? It was a movement that pulled plenty of non-Arabs into the unity of the Arab tribe thereby identifying them as loyal to the Arab movement. The Baathist party in Syria were not Arabs, yet they identified with the Arab nationalist movement and they catered to the Sunni minority in their midst to unite Muslims under certain causes. In the end, this strengthened the Arab tribe and influenced non Arabs throughout the region.

    The Sauds spent a fortune funding wahabbist schools in Afghanistan to combat Khomeini's revolution in Iran. It was combatting Shia fanaticism with Sunni fanaticism. This pulled in non-Arabs. Next thing we know we have a Sunni loyal Tali-Ban hosting a Sunni Al-Queda. The same thing happened in Lebanon. After being slaughtered in Jordan by Jordanioan forces, the PLO shifted into south lebanon. They went on to conscript the largely Shia population in the Arab war against Israel. Before this, the Shia didn't share the Sunni Arab mission to destroy Israel.

    All these nations have seperate issues and seperate groups within their unatural borders, but we can't find ouselves in the trap of trying to identify them in accordance to anchient histories. The twentieth century did a lot to alter tirbes allegiances and this resulted in the abandonment of some of their true identities.

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    Re: Iraq Ministries Targeted in Car Bombings; Over 130 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Which proves that the problems of the Middle East aren't a Muslim thing rather than a regional thing. The further nations, religions, and people (Muslims included) got from Mecca and Medina the healthier they got.




    Religion and history isn't what makes them "Arab." Remember pan-Arabism? It was a movement that pulled plenty of non-Arabs into the unity of the Arab tribe thereby identifying them as loyal to the Arab movement. The Baathist party in Syria were not Arabs, yet they identified with the Arab nationalist movement and they catered to the Sunni minority in their midst to unite Muslims under certain causes. In the end, this strengthened the Arab tribe and influenced non Arabs throughout the region.

    The Sauds spent a fortune funding wahabbist schools in Afghanistan to combat Khomeini's revolution in Iran. It was combatting Shia fanaticism with Sunni fanaticism. This pulled in non-Arabs. Next thing we know we have a Sunni loyal Tali-Ban hosting a Sunni Al-Queda. The same thing happened in Lebanon. After being slaughtered in Jordan by Jordanioan forces, the PLO shifted into south lebanon. They went on to conscript the largely Shia population in the Arab war against Israel. Before this, the Shia didn't share the Sunni Arab mission to destroy Israel.

    All these nations have seperate issues and seperate groups within their unatural borders, but we can't find ouselves in the trap of trying to identify them in accordance to anchient histories. The twentieth century did a lot to alter tirbes allegiances and this resulted in the abandonment of some of their true identities.
    Oh. I thought we were dealing with the physical nature of the people. Yeah I would totally agree that they see themselves, most of them at least, as a Arabian front against Bolshevism and Westernization.

    They share much in common with their Saka ancestors in-as-much that people still get headaches trying to identify them haha.

    The Sauds wouldn't agree with you. They would try to reaffirm that Wahabbism is an American media creation (it's actually fairly laughable to hear the American raised Saudi Diplomats seriously deny such).

    We still see some problems involving Muslim communities in areas such as Thailand. But, overly, yeah it is a bad neighborhood for anybody regardless of religion.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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