Stupak Says He Has 40 To Kill Health Care Over Abortion

1. Pelosi today signalled a major reversal in house strategy concerning the public option, up to now a non-negotiable component of the hard-put speakeress' plans.

House Leaders Woo Centrists to Back Public Plan - WSJ.com

2. Today, Whip Clyburn suggested that Pelosi and her powerful pals were suddenly open to new concepts, including requiring that the government option negotiate payment rates directly with health insurers instead of tying them to Medicare's cheaper scheduling.

3. Such a dramatic turnabout indicates beyond doubt that the votes for the most liberal house bill simply do not exist.

4. Just yesterday, Ms Pelosi indicated the precise opposite, 218, she assured, were "in sight."

5. Today, she continues to spin: "there is no philosophical difference" between the more robust PO she's insisted upon til today and competing propositions calling for more open pay scales.

6. Then why all the pompous posturing the last two months, Ms P?

7. The new plan with higher compensations for doctors increases the ultimate cost of Plan Pelosi, and CBO is certain to score it as such.

8. Just yesterday, 36 house dems threatened to vote down the bill specifically because of such debt-busting objections.

36 Moderate Democrats Threaten to Vote Down Health Bill - Roll Call

9. Yet today Pelosi ups the price.

10. Sister, is the put-to speakeress pinched.

11. "People are where they are and obviously that's a little short of 218," pointed out Rep Pomeroy of North Dakota.

12. Just last week, the palsied speakeress proclaimed that the robust PO was the plan with most potent support.

Pelosi pushes strong public option - Patrick O'Connor - POLITICO.com

13. Meanwhile, The Hill reports the poor speakeress summoned an "emergency meeting" this morning to maintain she has NOT dropped her most progressive of PO plans.

Pelosi calls an emergency meeting on push for ?robust? public option - TheHill.com

14. What?

15. She was pressured late Thursday by her liberal leaners to whom she proffered pretty promises.

16. Sister, is the heart-pained speakeress pinched.

17. She reiterates to one wing her commitment to the lowest Medicare rates.

18. Then, the Whip goes public this pm to publish the precise opposite.

19. What?

20. The Hill reports the San Francisco extremist is about to surrender the center of her spearhead.

21. Still, she spins.

22. At her Friday presser the strained speakeress was asked if she'd given up the PO.

23. "The answer is no," she responded, "no decision on that has been made."

24. Clyburn, meanwhile, related how he's been shopping 4 different PO's around his delegation.

25. "We are still in the process of determining which PO suits the majority of our caucus," declaimed the head counter.

26. Unfortunately, a majority of the caucus won't suffice, leadership needs 85%.

27. The robust PO is the most popular, Pelosi has purported repeatedly.

28. Yet the most progressive proposal cannot approach 218.

29. Most ominously, though, Bart Stupak of Michigan claims he has 40 conservative congressfolk who will vote to kill Obamacare if the put-out speakeress refuses to allow a floor vote on a stand alone measure to prohibit federal funds financing abortion.

CNSNews.com - Congressman Says He Now Has ?About 40 Likeminded Democrats? Who Will Vote to Kill Health Bill if He Doesn?t Get Floor Vote on Pro-Life Amendment

30. "We will try---we, there's about 40 like-minded democrats like myself---we'll try to take down the rule," asserted Stupak to CNS.

31. "If all 40 of us vote in a bloc against the rule---because we think the Republicans will join us---we can defeat the rule."

32. "If you hold all 40 of your guys," questioned CNS, "how many do you have?"

33. "About 220," blurted the bluedog.

34. "They cannot bring the bill to the floor," continued the centrist.

35. The house bill contains a clause, the Capps Amendment, requiring each health care "exchange" include at least one option subsidizing abortion.

36. Stupak's stipulation would resemble Hyde, which forbids federal funds from financing the offing of fetuses.

37. On the flip side, though, are the choicers, championed must staunchly by Henry Waxman, chair of Energy-Commerce, the last committee to clear health care in the house, only hours before the adjournment for August recess.

38. "We have a difference of opinion at the moment we cannot bridge," blabbed the boardman, "we have done everything we can to ensure that there will be no federal funds for abortion services."

39. Clearly, Stupak and his 40 feel differently.

40. Stupak, a tall man, joked when asked if he'd reached accord with the dwarfish Waxman: "I'm a little taller," sniped Stupak, "our minds don't meet."

My Way News - Abortion divides House Dems in health care debate

41. But Waxman and NARAL are already dissatisfied that Plan Pelosi doesn't go FAR ENOUGH in encoding the right to choose: the house bill "singles out abortion from other health care services, but apparently it was necessary to stop anti-choice politicians from continuing to use health care reform to attack a woman's right to choose," noted NARAL president Nancy Keenan.

42. Necessary, perchance, but not enough.

43. Meanwhile, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops corroborated it cannot back a bill unless anti-abortion bulwarks are built up.

44. House hetmen are torn---they can't allow Stupak to get to the floor, yet frustrating him may finish off their fancies.

45. In another belly blow, congressional insiders have leaked the price tag for Plan Pelosi---in excess of 1T---signifcantly higher than the president's upper bound of 900B.

My Way News - House health care bill over $1 trillion for decade

46. And that's in advance of CBO's score.

47. Pelosi has been gossiping about an "unreleased CBO estimate" of 871B the last few days.

48. But "numerous officials" have undercut that accounting by more than 150B.

49. Pelosi excludes several items designed to improve M&M benefits, as well as public subsidies and more, the anonymous bigmouths made known.

50. Insisting on anonymity, the candid congressionals indicated they have not been authorized to announce their arithmetic.

51. Sounds like they might get in trouble.

52. Recall the 36 budget hawks who lobbied their leader via letter yesterday to limit her largesse, else they'd lay down on the legislation.

53. And Obama himself has repeated in a plethora of public pronouncements his upper limit of 900B.

54. The taller than 1T total, in addition, is dependent on Medicare's cheaper doctor's receipts, which Pelosi is reported to be on the verge of yielding.

55. That is, when the hard-pressed speakeress is compelled to allow caregivers to negotiate freely with providers, the sum will only swell.

56. Leadership today also added addendums to close the gap in prescription drug coverage 5 years sooner than originally conceived.

57. "As of January 1, 2010, our legislation will give a 50% discount for brand name drugs in the donut hole, and it will close the size of the donut hole by $500," promised the pushed-around speakeress.

58. All of which increases the cost of coverage already too high.

59. Sister, is the pestered speakeress pinched.

60. Her problems appear insuperable.

Rep. Bart Stupak (D.-Mich.) told CNSNews.com yesterday that he has organized a group of “about 40 likeminded Democrats” who will vote to kill the health-care bill if House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.) does not allow a floor vote on his amendment to prohibit federal funds from going to insurance plans that cover abortion.

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CNSNews.com - Congressman Says He Now Has ?About 40 Likeminded Democrats? Who Will Vote to Kill Health Bill if He Doesn?t Get Floor Vote on Pro-Life Amendment


The Prof

An illegible word salad.

I am interested in the title of your thread. Which article discusses that topic? I found the article about Stupak (the MyWay article?), but it doesn't say he has 40 votes in it. Does another article say that?



btw, in BN, post titles must match article titles, include short excerpted paragraphs from the article, and your commentary on that article.

It's kinda hard to figure out which link has the article which the title indicates, and it's even harder to weed thru a 60-pt bullet list and multiple links to find it.

jackalope said:

I am interested in the title of your thread. Which article discusses that topic? I found the article about Stupak (the MyWay article?), but it doesn't say he has 40 votes in it. Does another article say that?



btw, in BN, post titles must match article titles, include short excerpted paragraphs from the article, and your commentary on that article.

It's kinda hard to figure out which link has the article which the title indicates, and it's even harder to weed thru a 60-pt bullet list and multiple links to find it.

II - All Opening Post threads posted in *BN* must have:

• Link to an article from a bona-fide news organization.
• Dateline within the past 48 hours.
• Exact same title as the cited article.
• Quoted short excerpts from the article.
• Your own unique content to spur discussion.

more ...


http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...delines-updated-9-02-09-a.html#post1058155572​

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i'm sorry if it's too hard

The Prof said:

i'm sorry if it's too hard

Click to expand...

I also asked a question: which article points to the 40 votes rounded up?

edit: never mind, I see you posted in another reply. ty.

I can't keep up with the healthcare merry go round. The house has been insisting on the necessity of a public option. At the same time the senate has been just as insistent that there will be no public option in their bill. Today, it seems that the two sides have changed places. Where's the leadership?

J.P. Bill

bridge buff said:

I can't keep up with the healthcare merry go round. The house has been insisting on the necessity of a public option. At the same time the senate has been just as insistent that there will be no public option in their bill. Today, it seems that the two sides have changed places. Where's the leadership?

J.P. Bill

Click to expand...

absolutely, you get it

pelosi surrendered the PO

also, the dogs threaten to kill the whole thing over abortion

and the cost exceeds 1T

a relatively minor point, tho one definitely threatening to pull obamacare's plug, concerns the payment scheduling for caregivers

it's what precipitated the doc fix in the senate wednesday which WENT DOWN

bridge buff said:

I can't keep up with the healthcare merry go round. The house has been insisting on the necessity of a public option. At the same time the senate has been just as insistent that there will be no public option in their bill. Today, it seems that the two sides have changed places. Where's the leadership?

J.P. Bill

Click to expand...

Didn't you hear? Leadership ended with Reagan. LOL.

bridge buff said:

I can't keep up with the healthcare merry go round. The house has been insisting on the necessity of a public option. At the same time the senate has been just as insistent that there will be no public option in their bill. Today, it seems that the two sides have changed places. Where's the leadership?

J.P. Bill

Click to expand...

It has seemed like a trip thru the rabbit hole today. I'm tired of the sausage making and want to see the final bills in each House. Actually, what I really want to see is the conference report!

61. But, I could be wrong.

62. Sadly, no.

63. Jesus wept.

64. Get more non-sequiturs at: The-Prof.org

thus spaketh the personality whore

the whip whined, no more PO

the dog barked, bye bye abortion

the cbo sighed, too much

heaved the hill, worried the wsj, reported roll call, complained politico, sang cns

36 write a letter---they'll KILL it

40 fire a baby loving cannonball

and 1991 numbers non sequiturs

LOL!

goldendog said:

An illegible word salad.

Click to expand...

You should have continued on to 4th Grade.

American said:

You should have continued on to 4th Grade.

Click to expand...

If Prof wasn't the only rightie left that can communicate coherantly would you still be so tolerant of his word salads?

revealing updates on health care from the sunday talks:

abc's stephy (parpaphrasing): you were one of the 13 who voted against the doc fix

claire mccaskill: we're going to do do a 1 year fix now, i'm a deficit hawk, we can't afford to do nothing

stephy: do you think the ama will be satisfied with a 1 year fix

mccaskill: there's a lot of misinformation out there, this is not an all encompassing govt plan, it's like the plan for congress members, hospitals are worried, doctors are worried, pharmaceuticals are worried, insurance companies are worried, the american people are worried, the devil we know is worse than the one we don't

stephy: reid is tinkering with various public options, negotiate pay scales or tie to medicare rates, state-by-state options, opt in vs opt out?

mccaskill: these are votes on choices, there's the states opt in, there's the states opt out, there's the trigger, no line in the sand for me, we must reconfigure health care for the long term

stephy---snowe says she won't support anything but the trigger, she says the robust PO puts the govt in a disproportionate position, are you driving away your only republican

mccaskill---sure, i'm concerned about votes but i'm pretty optimistic, if we get ben nelson, evan bayh and lieberman they will attract moderate republicans, the PO is limited anyway, it's only for about 25 to 30 million americans in the exchange, it's all about options

***

abc's panel:

george will: a collaborative media are manufacturing a sense of inevitability, they need nelson, bayh and landrieu, i'm dubious

john podesta: there's been enormous progress, small business will see their premiums increase 15% next year if we do nothing (ny times, front page today), that's impetus, there's the opt in, the opt out, the trigger, it remains to be seen, reid is vote counting, he's trying to get to 60, he's going for snowe

stephy: will snowe support a filibuster

al hunt: she's from maine, she means what she says (hunt did a one on one interview this week with ms olympia and he is being treated as the snowe expert, here), i'm not sure what reid's doing, they need snowe for health care, for cover, if they play for snowe and lose then they'll lose

laura ingraham: snowe is getting less blowback from her constituents than are moderate dems, there's public angst over this, even at this table, none of us knows what's in the plan

stephy: there's only 12 million included in the option, and that's before the opt out

cynthia tucker: this is neither the panacea nor the evil govt takeover it's being painted as, reid needs 60, he should get it plus snowe, they might vote "no" later but they'll give him 60

will: more twists coming, amendments on the floor, and they won't put it online for 72 hours

stephy: pelosi says she won't allow any amendments, good idea?

hunt: you can do what you want in the house, snowe's trigger compromise is something all can rally around

***

cnn's state of the union with john king

king shows ad from nebraska: ben nelson promised no taxes but health care includes huge increases

king: will you support a filibuster

nelson: no promises, it would be reckless to approve procedurals without knowing what's in the bill

king: opt out or only opt in?

nelson: opt in maybe, opt out no, i don't know where it's going

king to sharrod brown of ohio: snowe, snowe, snowe, lynn woolsey (progressive leader in house) says this is the united states of america not the us of maine

brown: i can't support snowe's trigger, we've given insurance companies 50 years, we can't give em 2 more, pre existing conditions, a c-section in southwest ohio, a victim of domestic violence, denied cuzza pre existing conditions

king: is that a line in the sand

brown: no lines, 52 or 53 or 54 support the (robust) PO, says harkin (HELP chairman)

king: premiums on small biz to go up 15% next year, says the times

orrin hatch: medicare contains 38 trillion dollars of unfunded liability, it's broke, if reid gets 60 we'll have a PO, guaranteed, medicare costs exceed privates by 33% in ny, by 100% in utah, this is a fiasco, the mandates on states, the bill is 1500 pages, there are 6 republican plans, there are huge tax increases, higher premiums, deficit increases, it all comes down to 60, republicans want 50 state laboratories

king: do you care if you get republican votes

brown: i'd love republican votes, republicans offered dozens of amendments in finance, 38 trillion is a myth

nelson (from conservative nebraska): it's landmark legislation, it really should have 2/3 support, the state based PO could get 2/3, utah's problems are not CA's, not nebraska's

king: there's the opt in, the opt out, the trigger, the co op

jim combat boots webb from VA: nelson's quote is classic, it's difficult to see even what we're voting for, the white house should have come down with a clean template of what they wanted

king: the co op approach like kent conrad?

webb: in a perfect world, yes

king: what if reid says there's no perfect world, the opt out?

webb: these are interesting options, of course they're all very new, i will vote for a debate, i will not filibuster, i may not support the final piece but i will vote to get it to the floor

***

me: they're very divided over the opt in, opt out (that's new)

they really resent snowe

they're also frustrated about being left in the dark

last week they were split over doctor's pay rates, libs want medicare scheduling, ruralists INSIST no way

it appears they've moved past that and kent conrad got his way

but doing so busts the cbo

think for yourself, judge for yourself, i tried not to editorialize a word, here

thanks

The Prof said:

think for yourself, judge for yourself, i tried not to editorialize a word, here

thanks

Click to expand...

You did a good job, Prof. Really useful info. Thx


(but you did editorialize with 'Jim Combat Boots Webb' :lol: - teasing! )

wow, class

thanks

good luck to your side

a lot of your folks at working their butts off for their team

eace thx, Prof :2wave:

the last word on health care, sunday

(i certainly caught most if not all the discussions---i never get around to cbs' ftn with schieffer---like i do most sundays i took notes):

(i offer the following for your information and elucidation, simply):

mtp, nbc:

gregory: 61% want a PO, will it be there?

schumer: reid is leaning very strongly toward a PO with states-opt-out, pay rates at medicare +5%, or negotiate rates, 40 states have markets dominated by 2 or fewer providers, you're not required to take the PO, it's an option

gregory: conservative dems, snowe, will they support?

schumer: reid is a wizard vote counter, libs want a stronger option but we're willing to live with it, some mods like the states opt out, others don't but won't kill the bill, we're close to 60 for the opt out

cornyn: reid counted last week and 13 dems defeated his doc fix, he's having big problems holding his dems together, he's maxed out the nation's credit card, now they want to increase the debt ceiling

gregory: who's to blame for the debt?

cornyn: 1.1T stimulus, health care makes phony assumptions which will never occur like medicare cuts of half a tril, we need to free up purchase across state lines, the PO is a trojan horse for single payer

schumer: we're trying to pay for everything, we're working to add not a nickel to the deficit, bush never paid for his prescription plan, bush gave us a huge deficit, it's counterintuitive but true---obama is trying to control costs, our health care for example is more limited than many want, republicans need to join us

cornyn: judd gregg, difi, kent conrad and i wrote a letter to reid---don't raise the deficit, control these things

***

fox news sunday panel:

chris wallace: pelosi promised this week the robust PO, the PO was once dead, what happened?

bill krystol: the PO is alive but health care will fail, taxes, higher premiums, that's IF it comes to the floor which i'm still waiting for

mara liason: they're going step by difficult step, they're backing away from robust PO, there's opt ins, opt outs and triggers, the PO was revived after reaction to AHIP's report (claiming premiums would go up), the search for 60 continues, the robust PO may arise thru amendment, or snowe's trigger, it will win or lose fair and square

dana perino (bush's press secty): the PO has 9 lives, a field of dreams strategy, if you build it they will come, facts don't back it up, the doc fix defeat, they're wasting time on the PO

juan wms: that's a whacky question, of course PO is alive, it's thriving, polls are high on PO, insurance co's are ripping off americans

krystol: 46 to 48 oppose obama on health care (waving a newspaper, he and wms talk over each other), medicare cuts, tax hikes

wms: you're appealing to the worst fears of seniors, reid is committed to PO

krystol: 47 to 53 on the doc fix

(they continued a few more comments, but you can see where this is going)

***

me: concerning the opt-in/opt-out debate, you probably want to know---the left wants opt out, the centrists prefer opt in

if states are allowed to opt in, then red regions will never be a part

if opt out, the thinking is, it will be difficult to disengage once you're involved

one more pertinent development today---the huffington post reports on russ feingold's comments made today on cbs, ftn

from the article:

the white house thinks reid's whip count is too optimistic

it is (trust me, i could tell you how i know, but it would take several paragraphs)

part of the administration's reasoning is that if you don't have snowe on board you end up losing the votes of a handful of conservative democrats, so the white house is pushing an alternative proposal that would have the public plan triggered in by economic conditions

feingold (also from the article, but in the senator's words, not the reporter's): "to me that would be a serious gap and it would be a very strong reason not to support [the bill]"

"we need a PO, we need something that would cause some control over the abuses that have occured in the insurance industry"

triggers are "just an invitation for the insurance industry to manipulate the situation for a couple years just so they can avoid the trigger and convince members of congress to delay it again, we need to do something now"

feingold was not asked whether he'd support a filibuster

Feingold: No Public Option A "Strong Reason" Not To Support Reform