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Thread: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    It think his point is; Is that your only internet access choice?
    Most people have a choice, DSL, Cable, Satellite, or service via cell.
    No, "most" people don't. Its a very city, coastal view point honestly.

    Yes, generally if you live in a high population area in the coasts of the country there's a chance you could have DSL, Cable, Satelilite, and possibly cell.

    In many places of the company however, there's only really one choice, maybe two if you're lucky.

    Not to mention Cell service as your internet is already experiencing some of the issues, with the "unlimited internet" offered by them being hardly "unlimited" but actually generally capped at about 5gig by their TOS.

    Hell, I'm in Northern Virginia...hardly a middle of the country BFE type place...and my only options are Cable or possibly cell right now. Verizon won't run its FIOS connection to my apartment complex, and we're not in a position that will get good Sat coverage. I could do Sprint or AT&T, but see previous issue.

    No, its frankly not an open market. Just because a few places give you a few choices of "internet", though hardly a few choices of TYPE of internet, doesn't mean that's the norm.
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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, "most" people don't. Its a very city, coastal view point honestly.

    Yes, generally if you live in a high population area in the coasts of the country there's a chance you could have DSL, Cable, Satelilite, and possibly cell.

    In many places of the company however, there's only really one choice, maybe two if you're lucky.

    Not to mention Cell service as your internet is already experiencing some of the issues, with the "unlimited internet" offered by them being hardly "unlimited" but actually generally capped at about 5gig by their TOS.

    Hell, I'm in Northern Virginia...hardly a middle of the country BFE type place...and my only options are Cable or possibly cell right now. Verizon won't run its FIOS connection to my apartment complex, and we're not in a position that will get good Sat coverage. I could do Sprint or AT&T, but see previous issue.

    No, its frankly not an open market. Just because a few places give you a few choices of "internet", though hardly a few choices of TYPE of internet, doesn't mean that's the norm.
    You stated that most people don't have any choice and then proceeded to point out that, yes, you do. You just don't like those choices.

    As far as choice only being available in high population areas, I have a place in a remote area of the central USA where I spend as much of time as possible while in the USA. The closest major city is over 200 miles away. I have the choice of cable, DSL, Sat from two providers, or cell based from ATT, Verizon, or T-Mobile.

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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    It think his point is; Is that your only internet access choice?
    Most people have a choice, DSL, Cable, Satellite, or service via cell.
    Doesn't matter, there is only one cable provider. So, they have a monopoly.

    But, at my parents home, for instance, they have only the choice for cable. No DSL. They could possibly get satellite, but who the **** would be stupid enough to choose sat when they have cable available?

    Only one provider for cable. Only one provider for DSL. In other words, they have a monopoly.

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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Satellite internet is not good. As the technology stands now it is highly unstable and highly expensive. It has high latency issues which is a killer for many things you do on the internet.

    Cell phone internet is still in its baby steps. Most providers still do not provide the same service as cable/DSL in speeds or usage. Usually there is a max download limit of 1 to 5 GB a month at full speed and anything after that is either paid per mb or the speed is cut to under 256kbs. So this is hardly a viable option for any heavy user of the net. Not to mention the quality of the signal depends often on location and there are high latency issues.

    So both above are not real viable alternatives to cable/DSL solutions, in both cost and quality. Might as well have dial up via modem since they are really only good for mails and basic internet surfing.

    And yes the US has a serious problem with its Internet providers. I have seen it before, we had it in Europe before liberalization of the telecommunications market was pushed through against the wishes of the telecommunications industry. This has meant that even in Spain, a country that by European standards is still in the Internet dark ages, we have 5 plus nationally available and half a dozen local providers. On top of that there are many wireless solutions, plus of course cell phone and satellite solutions. Competition is good regardless of where you are.
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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Doesn't matter, there is only one cable provider. So, they have a monopoly.

    But, at my parents home, for instance, they have only the choice for cable. No DSL. They could possibly get satellite, but who the **** would be stupid enough to choose sat when they have cable available?

    Only one provider for cable. Only one provider for DSL. In other words, they have a monopoly.
    One cable provider? How about DirecTV, Dish Network?
    If the satellite provider offered some internet service or site access they couldn't get otherwise, it would be a consideration.
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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    One cable provider? How about DirecTV, Dish Network?
    If the satellite provider offered some internet service or site access they couldn't get otherwise, it would be a consideration.
    Satellite is not an option for an online gamer or anyone who transfers a lot of data per month and/or cannot afford high latency. Or someone who actually wants consistent, uninterrupted service. Or anyone who wants local news channels on TV.

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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    One cable provider? How about DirecTV, Dish Network?
    If the satellite provider offered some internet service or site access they couldn't get otherwise, it would be a consideration.
    Satellite internet is not worth the money. Huge costs, low quality and limited speeds.
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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Satellite is not an option for an online gamer or anyone who transfers a lot of data per month and/or cannot afford high latency. Or someone who actually wants consistent, uninterrupted service. Or anyone who wants local news channels on TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Satellite internet is not worth the money. Huge costs, low quality and limited speeds.
    Local channels are available on Satellite Television and have been for years.

    I have had to use satellite internet before. While you both are correct about the gaming aspects of it, I had no problems other than that.
    I have to point out here though, that you both are claiming that the satellite option is available, but because it doesn't provide the standard of service you want you chose something else. When I had satellite the alternative was dial up. It was much better than dial up.
    Even if we discount the options available and say that monopolies exist in the areas of cable and internet, Who created these monopolies? Government. So asking them to police the situation seems counter productive.
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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Local channels are available on Satellite Television and have been for years.

    I have had to use satellite internet before. While you both are correct about the gaming aspects of it, I had no problems other than that.
    I have to point out here though, that you both are claiming that the satellite option is available, but because it doesn't provide the standard of service you want you chose something else. When I had satellite the alternative was dial up. It was much better than dial up.
    Yes it is much better than dial up, however the cost is also huge in comparison. Dial up is often free.. satellite aint. And yes games and similar things that require a steady stable low latency are useless on satellite.

    Even if we discount the options available and say that monopolies exist in the areas of cable and internet, Who created these monopolies? Government. So asking them to police the situation seems counter productive.
    Hardly. While it might be right that government rules and regulations created these monopolies, these monopolies or near monopolies will stay so unless those rules and regulations are either removed or new ones put in place to secure competition on the market. And that is the whole point. If a company has a monopoly in an area on say DSL or Cable.. why? Can competitors not pay for access to the "copper/wires in the ground" and hence create competition? If not, then there you have your problem.. the buy in cost for new competition is far far too steep to make it viable. If everyone had to lay down their own cable in a city or area, then there would be no competition as it is insanely expensive to do so, plus often highly unnecessary. Its like electricity. Just because there are several electricity companies in the area, does not mean that you have to put up new lines if you change company.. unless that does not exist in the US either?

    In Europe, Government did create monopolies in the telecommunications market. But it was also government that pulled the sector out of monopoly by creating liberalisation that insured that anyone with the capital and will could start up a telecommunications company and provide a service. And believe me the big telecommunications companies were not happy about the legislation.. especially the old monopoly companies who owned and still do own most of the copper in the ground so to say. They are required by law to give access to competitors at a reasonable price.
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    Re: McCain introduces bill to block Net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Even if we discount the options available and say that monopolies exist in the areas of cable and internet, Who created these monopolies? Government. So asking them to police the situation seems counter productive.
    I've already stated that the preferred alternative would be to allow cable companies to compete with one another directly. If they are not able to do that, then something else must be done to prevent a company from monopolizing an area and raping its customers.

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