• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

You said:





Stopping them from losing the war.

1) The bulk of the work is done; it's an entirely different scenario now, post-surge. Then, they were ready to pull up stakes and leave in disgrace.

2) It would embarrass Obama now, not Bush. Sorry; that's just the way it plays and what it was about back then.
 
What it was ..was an opinion which noone can now say is true or false until our troops are out of Iraq & we see what happens.

What, no one can say now that Reid was wrong when he said the war was "lost" then?

Try again.
 
What, no one can say now that Reid was wrong when he said the war was "lost" then?

Try again.

My point is the goal of a stable democracy/partner against terrorism in the region (Iraq) is far from a certainty I have real doubts that it will ever happen. I fear when we leave...civil war will again take over until another strongman takes control.
All I know is I want our troops out of there.
 
You favor leaving 50,000 troops in Iraq...forever? (even if they want us out?)
Serious questions.

Certainly not forever. 10 years? Perhaps. Unless they want us out, of course.
 
That's not what Reid said. According to him, we had lost. Unequivocal. Pelosi also called it a "total failure."
 
2) It would embarrass Obama now, not Bush. Sorry; that's just the way it plays and what it was about back then.

That's your opinion & I don't think the American voter will hold anyone responsible except GW Bush.....That's my opinion.
 
The Taliban's combat power destroyed. It's not hard to invision. I mean, it's how wars are won.

Should we invade Pakistan?
 
You favor leaving 50,000 troops in Iraq...forever? (even if they want us out?)
Serious questions.

Should the United States completely pulled out of Europe right after WW2?
 
My point is the goal of a stable democracy/partner against terrorism in the region (Iraq) is far from a certainty I have real doubts that it will ever happen. I fear when we leave...civil war will again take over until another strongman takes control.
All I know is I want our troops out of there.

We have a stable democracy/partner against terrorism. Their counterinsurgency units are top notch.
 
No, but we should conduct combined operations with the Paki army to root out and kill the Tallies.

Isn't that what is happening?
 
We have a stable democracy/partner against terrorism. Their counterinsurgency units are top notch.
Hows many troops do we still have there? Have we left yet?
(My fear is the day after we leave....civil war will flair up again)
 
Hows many troops do we still have there? Have we left yet?

Would you say Germany has a stable democracy? How many troops do we still have there?
 
Obviously, we can't just up-n-pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obviously?.....Is that a fact or your opinion? (obviously chocolate ice cream tastes better than strawberry)
 
Isn't that what is happening?

Not on the level that--in my opinion--needs to take place. I'm talking about American firepower combined with Paki intel on the enemy. So far, all we're doing is flying drone missions to attack point targets.
 
Don't have much time now but comparing Germany to Iraq or Afghanistan is apples to oranges.

Why? They are all nation building. How long did it take to bring a stable democracy to Germany? Did they have anti-occupation forces against us?
 
Obviously?.....Is that a fact or your opinion? (obviously chocolate ice cream tastes better than strawberry)

It's as obvious, as it was in Europe in 1945, that if we just up-n-leave, we'll only wind up going back in a few years and starting all over again. Every successful war we've fought has been followed by a post war occupation.

John Pershing said the same thing after WW1 ended and it turned out that h was right.
 
Not on the level that--in my opinion--needs to take place. I'm talking about American firepower combined with Paki intel on the enemy. So far, all we're doing is flying drone missions to attack point targets.

I think we're getting to the basic disagreement these things always boil down to:

Is war strictly military or is it political.
I think counterinsurgency wars are won or lost politically, not on any battlefield.
 
Please, get your chronology straight, if you're going to make claims. It didn't take 5 years for the '07 Offensive to launch. And, no one reccomended 600,000 troops...lol....where'd you get that from?

An interesting read on Cheney's exact qualifications for making sound military judgments base on knowledgable people's recommendations. I recommend you read the entire article.

Troop Levels in Stability Operations: What We Don't Know | World | AlterNet


Troops Levels and Iraq
Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki set off a firestorm when he told the Senate Armed Services committee before the invasion that "something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers" would be required to stabilize Iraq, a figure that began to approach 20 troops per 1,000 of the Iraqi population, the ratio that academics conventionally, if not universally, cite as necessary for successful stability operations. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld called this estimate "far off the mark," as did Deputy Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, who put the figure closer to 100,000 troops total for Iraq. As the war drags on, requiring orders of magnitude greater time, blood, and treasure than estimated by U.S. leadership, troop figures have become the foremost issue debated at all levels.
 
Why? They are all nation building. How long did it take to bring a stable democracy to Germany? Did they have anti-occupation forces against us?

Germany had a long tradition of democracy & western culture. Totally apples to oranges compared to the ME.

Nice discussion!:applaud
 
Back
Top Bottom