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Thread: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

  1. #351
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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Glinda,

    I for the life of me can not understand what it is that makes liberals just have to continually lean on that 'Bush did it too' crutch. Look, Obama said that the War in Afghanistan was the real front line in the war on terror, and that he was going to pursue it that way. He even made a giant show of appointing his own General that took him months to pick, and assured that with his new strategy in place, and his shinny new General, that we were about to make short order of this ordeal. Now come to find out, he doesn't talk to the General, Afghan's are losing confidence, and in the face of a tough, but honest assessment that they need 40K more troops, or they face failure, Obama sits like a deer in the headlights, and his minions make excuses, pulling out once again the tired, 'Well, Bush.......(insert diversion here).


    If I could say one thing to Mr. Obama, it would be "Look Pal, you are the man now, not Bush. **** or get off the pot!"


    j-mac
    Strange that for years the Republicans couldn't stand by themselves without using Clinton's penis as a crutch.....

  2. #352
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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    You do know that the reason the war in Afghanistan went bad is because Bush diverted much-needed top CIA specialists, elite Special Forces units, regular troops, equipment, and money from Afghanistan to the unnecessary and ill-conceived war in Iraq, don't you?
    I think you'll find the Afghanistan timeline does not bear that out.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #353
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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    bush dithered

    bush lost

    so did george mcclellan

    no one except academics and politicos cares

    obama's dithering

    obama's losing

    almost everyone cares, all but apologists completely uncritical

    especially concerned are gates, mcchrystal and the families and friends of the 50 or so fallen per month

  4. #354
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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    bush dithered

    bush lost

    so did george mcclellan

    no one except academics and politicos cares

    obama's dithering

    obama's losing

    almost everyone cares, all but apologists completely uncritical

    especially concerned are gates, mcchrystal and the families and friends of the 50 or so fallen per month
    What exactly has President Obama lost that wasn't lost already in Afghanistan?
    Nothing?

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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    his credibility

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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    his credibility
    Right...Who's credibilty do you support...Cheney's? The Taliban? Al Quaeda?

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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Glinda,

    I for the life of me can not understand what it is that makes liberals just have to continually lean on that 'Bush did it too' crutch. Look, Obama said that the War in Afghanistan was the real front line in the war on terror, and that he was going to pursue it that way. He even made a giant show of appointing his own General that took him months to pick, and assured that with his new strategy in place, and his shinny new General, that we were about to make short order of this ordeal. Now come to find out, he doesn't talk to the General, Afghan's are losing confidence, and in the face of a tough, but honest assessment that they need 40K more troops, or they face failure, Obama sits like a deer in the headlights, and his minions make excuses, pulling out once again the tired, 'Well, Bush.......(insert diversion here).


    If I could say one thing to Mr. Obama, it would be "Look Pal, you are the man now, not Bush. **** or get off the pot!"


    j-mac



    Some liberals, not all of them but some like the ones in question could care less about the lives in jeapoardy and instead will to the line of the extremist liberal causes defending thier "Dear leader" at all costs.... It is a most reprehensible position and one that talks of the character of said person better than you or I could ever articulate.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    cheney's insignificant outside the history classroom

    al qaeda, the taliban and obama all have serious problems, indeed

  9. #359
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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I think you'll find the Afghanistan timeline does not bear that out.
    I think you're wrong.

    How a 'good war' in Afghanistan went bad
    New York Times

    Two years after the Taliban fell to an American-led coalition, a group of NATO ambassadors landed in Kabul, Afghanistan, to survey what appeared to be a triumph — a fresh start for a country ripped apart by years of war with the Soviets and brutal repression by religious extremists.

    With a senior American diplomat, Nicholas Burns, leading the way, they thundered around the country in Black Hawk helicopters, with little fear for their safety. They strolled quiet streets in Kandahar and sipped tea with tribal leaders. At a briefing from the United States Central Command, they were told that the Taliban were now a "spent force."

    "Some of us were saying, 'Not so fast,' " Burns, now the under secretary of state for political affairs, recalled. "While not a strategic threat, a number of us assumed that the Taliban was too enmeshed in Afghan society to just disappear."

    But that skepticism had never taken hold in Washington. Since the 2001 war, American intelligence agencies had reported that the Taliban were so decimated they no longer posed a threat, according to two senior intelligence officials who reviewed the reports.

    The American sense of victory had been so robust that the top CIA specialists and elite Special Forces units who had helped liberate Afghanistan had long since moved on to the next war, in Iraq.


    Those sweeping miscalculations were part of a pattern of assessments and decisions that helped send what many in the American military call "the good war" off course.

    Like Osama bin Laden and his deputies, the Taliban had found refuge in Pakistan and regrouped as the American focus wavered. Taliban fighters seeped back over the border, driving up the suicide attacks and roadside bombings by as much as 25 percent this spring, and forcing NATO and American troops into battles to retake previously liberated villages in southern Afghanistan.

    They have scored some successes recently, and since the 2001 invasion, there have been improvements in health care, education and the economy, as well as the quality of life in the cities. But Afghanistan's embattled president, Hamid Karzai, said in Washington last week that security in his country had "definitely deteriorated." One former national security official called that "a very diplomatic understatement."

    President George W. Bush's critics have long contended that the Iraq war has diminished America's effort in Afghanistan, which the administration has denied, but an examination of how the policy unfolded within the administration reveals a deep divide over how to proceed in Afghanistan and a series of decisions that at times seemed to relegate it to an afterthought as Iraq unraveled.

    Statements from the White House, including from the president, in support of Afghanistan were resolute, but behind them was a halting, sometimes reluctant commitment to solving Afghanistan's myriad problems, according to dozens of interviews in the United States, at NATO headquarters in Brussels and in Kabul, the Afghan capital.

    At critical moments in the fight for Afghanistan, the Bush administration diverted scarce intelligence and reconstruction resources to Iraq, including elite CIA teams and Special Forces units involved in the search for terrorists. As sophisticated Predator spy planes rolled off assembly lines in the United States, they were shipped to Iraq, undercutting the search for Taliban and terrorist leaders, according to senior military and intelligence officials.

    As defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld claimed credit for toppling the Taliban with light, fast forces. But in a move that foreshadowed America's trouble in Iraq, he failed to anticipate the need for more forces after the old government was gone, and blocked an early proposal from Colin Powell, then the secretary of state, and Karzai, the administration's handpicked president, for a large international force. As the situation deteriorated, Rumsfeld and other administration officials reversed course and cajoled European allies into sending troops.

    ...

    A Shift of Resources to Iraq

    In October 2002, Robert Grenier, a former director of the CIA's counterintelligence center, visited the new Kuwait City headquarters of Lieutenant Gen David McKiernan, who was already planning the Iraq invasion. Meeting in a sheet metal warehouse, Grenier asked General McKiernan what his intelligence needs would be in Iraq. The answer was simple. "They wanted as much as they could get," Grenier said.

    Throughout late 2002 and early 2003, Grenier said in an interview, "the best experienced, most qualified people who we had been using in Afghanistan shifted over to Iraq," including the agency's most skilled counterterrorism specialists and Middle East and paramilitary operatives.

    That reduced the United States' influence over powerful Afghan warlords who were refusing to turn over to the central government tens of millions of dollars they had collected as customs payments at border crossings.

    While the CIA replaced officers shifted to Iraq, Grenier said, it did so with younger agents, who lacked the knowledge and influence of the veterans. "I think we could have done a lot more on the Afghan side if we had more experienced folks," he said.

    A former senior official of the Pentagon's Central Command, which was running both wars, said that as the Iraq planning sped up, the military's covert Special Mission Units, like Delta Force and Navy Seals Team Six, shifted to Iraq from Afghanistan.

    So did aerial surveillance "platforms" like the Predator, a remotely piloted spy plane armed with Hellfire missiles that had been effective at identifying targets in the mountains of Afghanistan. Predators were not shifted directly from Afghanistan to Iraq, according to the former official, but as new Predators were produced, they went to Iraq.


    "We were economizing in Afghanistan," said the former official, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to comment publicly. "The marginal return for one more platform in Afghanistan is so much greater than for one more in Iraq."

    The shift in priorities became apparent to Dov Zakheim, the Pentagon's former comptroller, as planning for the Iraq war was in high gear in the fall of 2002. Rumsfeld asked him to serve as the Pentagon's reconstruction coordinator in Afghanistan. It was an odd role for the comptroller, whose primary task is managing the Pentagon's $400 billion a year budget.

    "The fact that they went to the comptroller to do something like that was in part a function of their growing preoccupation with Iraq," said Zakheim, who left the administration in 2004. "They needed somebody, given that the top tier was covering Iraq."

    In an interview, Bush's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, insisted that there was no diversion of resources from Afghanistan, and he cited recently declassified statistics to show that troop levels in Afghanistan rose at crucial moments — like the 2004 Afghan election — even after the Iraq war began.

    But the former Central Command official said: "If we were not in Iraq, we would have double or triple the number of Predators across Afghanistan, looking for Taliban and peering into the tribal areas. We'd have the 'black' Special Forces you most need to conduct precision operations. We'd have more CIA"

    "We're simply in a world of limited resources, and those resources are in Iraq," the former official added. "Anyone who tells you differently is blowing smoke."

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    Re: Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I mean aren't the troops the ones that are suffering right now?


    j-mac
    The troop will suffer if their CnC makes the wrong decision.... hastily. A slower Right decision is what will help our troops.

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