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Thread: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    I am beginning to think, unlike Iraq, democratic nation building in Afghanistan may be impossible outside of Kabul; the society is too tribal and backward.

    Still, most people are being hysterical about the losses we are taking there; they are nothing comparable to almost every other war we have ever fought, including Iraq. We could sustain this effort for a long time.

    If nation building fails in the next years, say five years or so, that does not mean the war must end or that we must surrender to the Taliban. We do not have to be the pussies we presenting the the Talaban and Al Qeada.

    For our strategic purpose all we need achieve is to prevent the Taliban from controlling most of the country or having large safe havens in which to plan terror attacks in the West at their leisure.

    Having them fighting a low intensity guerrilla war in Afghanistan for decades serves our purpose every bit as much as the costlier goal of nation building.

    We could arm any group that opposes them, including the opium lords (who in the long run know a Taliban victory means their elimination) and let them do most of the slog fighting while we only augment with Special Forces, air power and increasingly effective predator drones, thus keeping the Taliban perpetually pinned down fighting in Afghanistan until they wear down.

    Just keeping them fighting in Afganistan is a victory.

    The West is not thinking about all its strategic options.

    The Taliban do not have the power to defeat us, only we do.
    Last edited by JW Frogen; 10-21-09 at 03:48 AM.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    Hell he could even install yet another corrupt puppet government that does nothing but dilly dally and screw things up over the next eight years.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    4. He could ignore the true realities in Afghanistan and divert all of our nations rescources and manpower into a totally unrelated war in a country who never had any connections to attacking us or connections to anybody who had those intentions. Lie to the citizens of his own country for political gain while ignoring all of the commanders on the ground that tell him to do the exact opposit of what he actually does...and fires them all. While all of his supporters are running around like a bunch of dimwits whining about Freedom fries and lame crap like that.
    Still trying to blame your Messiah's failures on Bush, I see. How freaking pathetic.

    Or he could be a true intelligent leader and be patient...
    Yea, just be patient as the train bears down on you...

    What you describe sounds a lot like my third option, i.e., dither and waste time on talk shows and fighting Fox News while troops die in the field and generals wait for direction from Washington.

    ...will getting advice and listening to all angles of knowledge...
    Like what? Got any examples?

    ...reguarding the situation in the country that borders the country that is harboring the people that we need to rid the world of.
    Nice sentence.

    Instead of running away from the true problems.
    The General is still waiting, last time I checked.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    "The General is still waiting, last time I checked."


    Hell some Presidents would have fired his ass by now.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by JW Frogen View Post
    Still, most people are being hysterical about the losses we are taking there...
    The hell I am. I got friends over there and Obama is putting their lives in unnecessary danger with his indecisiveness and weak leadership.

    Yea, troops die, but we shouldn't put them in more danger than is necessary because some spineless politician can't make up his puny little mind.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The hell I am. I got friends over there and Obama is putting their lives in unnecessary danger with his indecisiveness and weak leadership.

    Yea, troops die, but we shouldn't put them in more danger than is necessary because some spineless politician can't make up his puny little mind.
    I have had friends there too.

    I agreed with Bush on many things but he made decisions too quick and then stayed with them even when they were not working, (the surge was obvious long before Bush took to it) and I disagree with Obama on a lot of things, but the next moves we make in Afghanistan are going to have long term cost, we need to think about it.

    If we want to nation build, then we need to surge, if we think the Afghans can not nation build then we need a more ruthless, yet limited strategy that seeks to hunt only the Taliban and Al Qeada.

    Given the historically low death rates of this war, we have the time and need to think and get it right.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by JW Frogen View Post
    I have had friends there too.

    I agreed with Bush on many things but he made decisions too quick and then stayed with them even when they were not working, (the surge was obvious long before Bush took to it) and I disagree with Obama on a lot of things, but the next moves we make in Afghanistan are going to have long term cost, we need to think about it.

    If we want to nation build, then we need to surge, if we think the Afghans can not nation build then we need a more ruthless, yet limited strategy that seeks to hunt only the Taliban and Al Qeada.

    Given the historically low death rates of this war, we have the time and need to think and get it right.
    I agree with the second option. They've had their chance to pull it together as a nation. They have also been at war with one group of people or the other for a long time...several decades. The latest corrupt election is yet another example of the corrupt standards that the previous US administration condoned while diverting our troops and resources into Iraq.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV See below.
    Last edited by JW Frogen; 10-21-09 at 04:12 AM.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    I think everyone in the Administration is waiting to see how this election run off goes as a signal which strategy to use.

    Afterall, continued nation building WILL be costly in life, but fighting Al Qeada and the Talaban, arming anyone who opposes them, and hunting them with special forces and preditor drones will not.

    Not in our life, but it will cost Afgans more life.

    I would hope we can do the former, but if not that does not mean we give up to the Talaban and Al Qeada.

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    Re: U.S. decision can't wait for Afghan legitimacy: Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by JW Frogen View Post
    I have had friends there too.

    I agreed with Bush on many things but he made decisions too quick and then stayed with them even when they were not working, (the surge was obvious long before Bush took to it) and I disagree with Obama on a lot of things, but the next moves we make in Afghanistan are going to have long term cost, we need to think about it.

    If we want to nation build, then we need to surge, if we think the Afghans can not nation build then we need a more ruthless, yet limited strategy that seeks to hunt only the Taliban and Al Qeada.

    Given the historically low death rates of this war, we have the time and need to think and get it right.
    If Obama had any guts he'd commit to this war until it was won and won decisively. Our mission should be nation-building AND Taliban-killing. We can achieve both if we give the generals what they ask for and remain determined. The only force on the planet that can beat the American military is the defeatist media and Washington politicians.

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