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Bloomberg Investigation of Gun Shows

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PogueMoran

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I noticed no one had posted about Mayor Bloomberg's undercover investigation at Gun Shows across the country. After seeing the highly partisan way the Acorn "undercover investigation" was carried out I thought it would be nice to show how a real undercover investigation works. The premise: Private investigators were sent to gun shows in various states to buy guns from private dealers. The way the law works now is that private dealers do not have to run background checks at gunshows but if they feel that the person would not pass a background check they are obligated not to sell guns to the person. So the PIs bought guns under the premise that they would fail a background check. Now in the videos there are dealers who follow the law and those who don't.

What they found is 35 out of the 47 dealers they approached, sold them arms illegally.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhgjLDeyNLQ"]YouTube - The Loophole: Private Sellers Who Arent Private[/ame]

A dealer allowing a straw purchase (which is illegal)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fFv2oNRWYM"]YouTube - Illegal Sale #2: Allowing Illegal Straw Purchase[/ame]

A dealer stopping a straw purchase (when someone buys a gun and has someone else fill out the paper work for them)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVgGaJvcMxM"]YouTube - Illegal Sale #2: Rejecting Illegal Straw Purchase[/ame]

Several dealers ignoring the investigator saying he couldn't pass a background check
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJmpjpdcHN8"]YouTube - llegal Sale #1: Private Dealer Reactions[/ame]

Dealer following the law and denying the purchase
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuqGY3gFROM"]YouTube - Illegal Sale #1: Seller Passes the Integrity Test[/ame]

Dealer failing to follow the law
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_pdU-cvTw0"]YouTube - Illegal Sale #1: Sellers Fail the Integrity Test[/ame]

Now this is what a real undercover investigation looks like. If the Acorn guy was interested in being honest he would release videos showing people who turned him away.
 
It's sad that a criminal could get a gun this easily.
 
PogueMoran said:
I noticed no one had posted about Mayor Bloomberg's undercover investigation at Gun Shows across the country. After seeing the highly partisan way the Acorn "undercover investigation" was carried out I thought it would be nice to show how a real undercover investigation works. The premise: Private investigators were sent to gun shows in various states to buy guns from private dealers. The way the law works now is that private dealers do not have to run background checks at gunshows but if they feel that the person would not pass a background check they are obligated not to sell guns to the person. So the PIs bought guns under the premise that they would fail a background check. Now in the videos there are dealers who follow the law and those who don't.

What they found is 35 out of the 47 dealers they approached, sold them arms illegally.

YouTube - The Loophole: Private Sellers Who Arent Private

A dealer allowing a straw purchase (which is illegal)
YouTube - Illegal Sale #2: Allowing Illegal Straw Purchase

A dealer stopping a straw purchase (when someone buys a gun and has someone else fill out the paper work for them)
YouTube - Illegal Sale #2: Rejecting Illegal Straw Purchase

Several dealers ignoring the investigator saying he couldn't pass a background check
YouTube - llegal Sale #1: Private Dealer Reactions

Dealer following the law and denying the purchase
YouTube - Illegal Sale #1: Seller Passes the Integrity Test

Dealer failing to follow the law
YouTube - Illegal Sale #1: Sellers Fail the Integrity Test

Now this is what a real undercover investigation looks like. If the Acorn guy was interested in being honest he would release videos showing people who turned him away.
Click to expand...

For some reason I find hard to be appalled over individuals ignoring anti-2nd amendment laws,especially individuals who are not receiving tax payer funds.
 
If in fact these were accurate (as depicted) the sellers are liable and should be prosecuted as they are clearly subverting the laws. So are they being prosecuted?
 
the makeout hobo said:
It's sad that a criminal could get a gun this easily.
Click to expand...

Damn who would have thought that anti-2nd amendment laws do not deter law breakers? Criminals not obeying laws say it ain't so.
 
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:rofl
They are just now finding this out? It's really not surprising at all. They have gun shows all the time here and it's always like that. If gun enthusiasts can sell guns like this under the radar, they will do so regardless of what the government says.
 
Ockham said:
If in fact these were accurate (as depicted) the sellers are liable and should be prosecuted as they are clearly subverting the laws. So are they being prosecuted?
Click to expand...

I would assume so this was done by Bloomberg's office so it would be put on the respective states that this happened in to launch a prosecution
 
He's just pissy because some people in NY still have guns. I mean look at it over there, shoot yourself in the leg and you could be looking at 2 years. Commiville indeed.
 
PogueMoran said:
The point of posting the video was more about how an undercover investigation is done in comparison to the acorn tapes
Click to expand...

Yeah? Which one got better results??

The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
 
jamesrage said:
Damn who would have thought that anti-2nd amendment laws do not deter law breakers? Criminals not obeying laws say it ain't so.
Click to expand...

Are there any laws that are not broken by criminals? Since they are broken, should we just get rid of them?
 
Statistically speaking, only a small amount of guns used by criminals are obtained at gun shows. Most are obtained by straw purchasing or corrupt licensed federal firearms dealers. The investigation would suggest that criminals could turn to gun shows to obtain firearms, but that currently isn't the case.
 
Redress said:
Are there any laws that are not broken by criminals? Since they are broken, should we just get rid of them?
Click to expand...

The vast majority of laws can probably go the way of the dodo.
 
PogueMoran said:
Now this is what a real undercover investigation looks like. If the Acorn guy was interested in being honest he would release videos showing people who turned him away.
Click to expand...

Weren't they never turned away?
 
The whole "gun show loophole" thing is a red herring.

The fact is that most states do not require private sellers, whether at a gun show or in someone's yard somewhere, to run background checks or register or etc.

Some FFL dealers break the law.... what a shock.

All of this is simply looking at a type of tool that is sometimes used in crime. None of this addresses the root problems of this whole issue.

Root problem number One: WHY do we have dangerous repeat-offender criminals with a long record of violent crime out on the street at all? By the time they get to the point of using guns to commit crime, most criminals have a long record. They've been charged with many petty crimes and likely convicted of a few. Some of them have already committed a serious violent crime, served time, and gotten out. Why should someone who held a pistol on a Quicky-mart clerk for the contents of the register EVER get out of prison? He's demonstrated a total lack of regard for human life and the utter selfishness to risk an innocent life for the sake of less than $100.
When someone willingly puts the lives of innocents at risk for their own gain for criminal purposes, or otherwise demonstrates that they will do serious harm to others without any legitimate justification, we should remove them from society permanently.

Root problem number Two: We should never release a felon from prison unless we're reasonably sure he/she is no longer a threat to society. If we're reasonably sure they are no longer a threat to society, WHY should they lose their rights as a citizen? If they are unworthy of their rights as a citizen, or if the nature of their crime is such that they can never be trusted with arms again (ie forcible rapist), then WHY are we letting them out at all??
(because if they want a gun, they can find a way to get one!)

The two questions are related, you see.

Get the real-deal dangerous criminals off the streets and keep them off the streets, and guns won't really be an issue.
 
Look in just about any classified circular, or classified section of a newspaper and you can buy guns, from private sellers, with no background check. Someone wanting to purchase a non-registered gun doesn't need to go to a gun show.

With that said, I bought a gun at a gun show a couple of months ago and you could have knocked me over with a feather when they did a background check.
 
Redress said:
Are there any laws that are not broken by criminals?
Click to expand...

One of the alleged reasons for anti-2nd amendment laws in the first place is to stop criminals from exercising their 2nd amendment rights. Do these anti-2nd amendment laws achieve this?


Since they are broken, should we just get rid of them?
Click to expand...
Any law that violates the constitution should be repealed.
 
What has happened to the murder rate in this country since background checks started?
 
Adolf Bloomberg needs to leave gun shows alone.

The 2nd Amendment trumps Adolf Bloomberg and his coalition of anti-Americans.
 
apdst said:
What has happened to the murder rate in this country since background checks started?
Click to expand...


Not much really.

One of the problems with the whole background check is a lack of prosecutorial follow-through. Last time I checked, something over a hundred thousand background checks turned up something, but actual prosecutions were something like a dozen?
 
Gill said:
Yeah? Which one got better results??

The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
Click to expand...

Well one wasn't an investigation. The right had been focusing on Acorn for years as a boogieman in the long run getting rid of the 50 million acorn received in 15 years isn't really much.
 
jamesrage said:
One of the alleged reasons for anti-2nd amendment laws in the first place is to stop criminals from exercising their 2nd amendment rights. Do these anti-2nd amendment laws achieve this?



Any law that violates the constitution should be repealed.
Click to expand...

See there's the thing though we take away rights from criminals in most states. Do we have a constitutional reason to allow that
 
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