Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

Agent Ferris · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
Is that why they continue fighting you?!

"They" are not the Iraqi people they are a marginalized segment of Iraqi society who at their peak did not exceed an appx. 1% of the population. But for you "they" are more representative of the Iraqi people than the Iraqi government which was elected in free and fair elections with a voter turnout of 76% in 2005 and 51% in 2009.

What's the weather like on your planet?

Catz Part Deux · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
"It is premature to speculate of the US involvement, but this involvement is very probable."

Learn to pay attention to the words in front of you before responding.

Your initial sentence lacks internal coherence. If it is premature to speculate, than the speculation about involvement is...WITHOUT BASIS. You have zero evidence to support your position that the U.S. was behind this action. That's why you're relying on an old report that focuses primarily on Pakistan.

Wow. Logic is useful. Sometimes, even more useful than an 80 page document.

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

Agent Ferris said:
Get educated. Blah, blah, blah...

According to Ukraine's electoral law, a two-round system is used to elect the President. Yuschenko "won" on a third one.

Read the constitution.

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

Catz Part Deux said:
Your initial sentence lacks internal coherence.

And your posts lack the basic understanding of political games behind the scene.

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

apdst said:
Yeah, yeah, they hate us so much that they killed 100,000 Iraqis. They showed us, I reckon!

There were Frenchmen that fought us when we liberated France in 1944. Does that mean that all the other Frenchmen thought that Nazi rule was peaches and cream? There were alot of Italians that fought us when we liberated Italy, but we all know how that turned out for the Facists.

There's always going to be a small faction that wants the bad guys to stay in power, but you can't use that minority to judge the whole country.

Do Iraqis continue fighting the US/UK to the point the US is withdrawing from Iraq? Yes or no?

Catz Part Deux · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
And your posts lack the basic understanding of political games behind the scene.

I understand enough to know that a claim of U.S. involvement is EXTREMELY damaging to the organizations working towards greater freedom in Iran. Further, I understand that you have ZERO evidence that the U.S. was involved in this act.

You think you're really super smart, eh? But you've provided little in the way of an actual argument and a lot of baseless scuttlebutt.

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

Agent Ferris said:
"They" are not the Iraqi people they are a marginalized segment of Iraqi society

Must be a pretty big segment to turn back the US military might.

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

Catz Part Deux said:
....

Shall I repeat my initial post for you for the third time?

"It is premature to speculate of the US involvement, but this involvement is very probable." And the PROBABILITY of the US involvement was explained in the report you couldn't be bothered to read.

What do you want people to say? That the US has no history of orchestrating coups and using criminals, terrorists/"freedom fighters" for its own purposes?

reefedjib · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
Do Iraqis continue fighting the US/UK to the point the US is withdrawing from Iraq? Yes or no?

No. LOL!! We are withdrawing because a) our new president said he would, b) the status of forces agreement between the US and Iraq (negotiated by this Iraqi government which is supposed to be our puppet) dictated a withdrawal timetable for most of our troops. Not all of our troops are leaving and we still have troops chasing bad guys in places like Mosul.

The Iraqis fought us until we left!! LOL! ****!!

Agent Ferris · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
According to Ukraine's electoral law, a two-round system is used to elect the President. Yuschenko "won" on a third one.

Read the constitution.

According to the Ukrainian Constitution after the no-confidence vote by the Ukrainian Chamber of Ministers the government should have been dissolved and Viktor Yanukovych should have stepped down until after a new election, but he instead simply ignored the no-confidence vote prompting the Ukrainian Supreme Court to step in. Furthermore; prior to the December 26 re-vote, the Ukrainian Parliament on December 8, amended the Constitution by passing Law No. 2222-IV along with various other election legislation which allowed for the re-vote.

Agent Ferris · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
Must be a pretty big segment to turn back the US military might.

Yes in your world troop withdrawal after a military victory = retreat. I guess we lost WW2 as well.

reefedjib · Oct 21, 2009

Agent Ferris said:
Yes in your world troop withdrawal after a military victory = retreat. I guess we lost WW2 as well.

She's an idiot. Probably gets her news from Pravda.

Vader · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
That you are self deluded.

And you would be wrong. ... I bet that would not be the first time.

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

reefedjib said:
No. LOL!! We are withdrawing because

Not all of our troops are leaving and we still have troops chasing bad guys in places like Mosul.

Because the US bit more than it can chew. Your power clans thought they are going to deal with Afghan goat herders no problemo, and before it became apparent there is a BIG problemo with winning a war in Afghanistan, your clans stepped into another pile of sh*t by starting a war against Iraq.

In SIX years your clans-in-power managed to get themselves the contracts they were after, plonked a puppet government in Baghdad and are hoping now that they can secure their "achievements" by withdrawing most of the US military to pacify the locals enough that they will leave the puppet government alone to continue ensuring the rights of the US corporations in Iraq. Oh, and one more point: the US is in desperate need of additional forces in Afghanistan...

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

Agent Ferris said:
According to the Ukrainian Constitution after the blah, blah, blah.

Which part of "According to Ukraine's electoral law, a two-round system is used to elect the President" do you have difficulties with?

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

Agent Ferris said:
Yes in your world troop withdrawal after a military victory .

:lamo:lamo:lamo

reefedjib · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
Because the US bit more than it can chew.

No way. The insurgents suffered a great loss.

Elena said:
Your power clans thought they are going to deal with Afghan goat herders no problemo, and before it became apparent there is a BIG problemo with winning a war in Afghanistan, your clans stepped into another pile of sh*t by starting a war against Iraq.

I don't think so. It was always know that Afghanistan would be a problem. Gotta get the Pashtuns to play ball and when that didn't happen, things have escalated.

Iraq went badly for awhile, until we got their new Army trained and instituted a counterinsurgency strategy.

Elena said:
In SIX years your clans-in-power managed to get themselves the contracts they were after, plonked a puppet government in Baghdad and are hoping now that they can secure their "achievements" by withdrawing most of the US military to pacify the locals enough that they will leave the puppet government alone to continue ensuring the rights of the US corporations in Iraq. Oh, and one more point: the US is in desperate need of additional forces in Afghanistan...

Got the contracts!

Hopefully, we will leave Afghanistan.

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

reefedjib said:
She's an idiot. Probably gets her news from Pravda.

Probably...

America won the Vietnam War by losing it. Deja vu in Iraq.

Agent Ferris · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
Which part of "According to Ukraine's electoral law, a two-round system is used to elect the President" do you have difficulties with?

The Chamber of Ministers passed a no-confidence vote after which Viktor Yanukovych should have resigned, after which the Supreme Court ruled that due to the massive electoral fraud (proof of which is even found in taped recordings of the Yanukovych's campaign and government officials on how best to rig the election) that the rigged election results were null and void, and after which the Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian Parliament) passed various electoral legislation that allowed for the re-vote.

In the first round of elections neither candidate had enough of the vote to win, and Yanukovych rigged the second round of voting which prompted governmental procedure including a no-confidence vote, a Supreme Court Ruling, and electoral legal amendments, to allow for a third round of voting. There is nothing unconstitutional about it, except for the part where Yanukovych rigged the election and then ignored the no-confidence vote of the Chamber of Ministers.

But I guess in your world rigging an election is Constitutional, but holding a re-vote for said election is Unconstitutional. Wow.

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

Vader said:
And you would be wrong. ... I bet that would not be the first time.

Ever wondered why the burning of your flag is such a popular pastime around the world? In fact, wherever your country puts its "liberating" boot people develop a hobby of flag burning? Maybe they don't want to be "liberated"?

Agent Ferris · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
:lamo:lamo:lamo

We overthrew Saddam, the Iraqi people created a Democratic Republic, and now even the Sunni's are fighting the insurgency and the Iraqi police and security forces outnumber Coalition forces by a ratio of 2-1. I would call that victory. But I suppose troop withdrawal from Germany and Japan proves that the Drittes Reich and the Dai Nippon Teikoku won WW2. :roll:

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

reefedjib said:
1. No way. The insurgents suffered a great loss.

2. Hopefully, we will leave Afghanistan.

1. Bush said we won the war in Iraq in May 2003

2. Of course you will. Eventually. When you will bleed yourselves to death. Isn't it great to defend so loyally the profits and the power craze of the clans in charge of the US?

Elena · Oct 21, 2009

Agent Ferris said:
The Chamber of Ministers passed a no-confidence vote

According to Ukraine's electoral law, a two-round system is used to elect the President.

Unless of course, in your world rigging the elections (which happened on both sides) is unconstitutional, yet to hold the third round of elections PROHIBITED by the constitution is constitutional...

apdst · Oct 21, 2009

Originally Posted by Elena
Because the US bit more than it can chew.

We had a 12:1 kill ratio over the insurgents. Going by that, it's obvious that the bad guys were the ones that overloaded their asses.

Agent Ferris · Oct 21, 2009

Elena said:
According to Ukraine's electoral law, a two-round system is used to elect the President.

Prior to the third round of voting the electoral law was amended by the Ukrainian Parliament.

Unless of course, in your world rigging the elections (which happened on both sides)

You have 0 evidence for voter fraud on the part of the Yushchenko campaign, I on the other hand have tape recordings proving that the Yanukovich campaign did indeed rig the elections:

http://web.archive.org/web/20051223...da.com.ua/en/archive/2004/november/24/4.shtml

is unconstitutional, yet to hold the third round of elections PROHIBITED by the constitution is constitutional...

So in your assbackwards universe the Supreme Court should have ruled to keep the results of the rigged election? :roll: Sorry but Viktor Yanukovych rigged the elections, then he ignored the no-confidence vote of the Chamber of Ministers and refused to step down, then the Supreme Court ruled that the election results were rigged and thus null and void, then the Ukrainian Parliament passed legislation and a Constitutional Amendment allowing for a third round of voting. Only on your planet could this possibly be construed as an unconstitutional election.