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Thread: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

  1. #81
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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Australianlibertarian View Post
    I am a bit bemused as to why some people hope that the U.S was somehow involved in this attack. For me this kind of attitude is what helped to foster the Taleban and Al-Queda.

    The people that conducted this attack are most likely a Sunni-Islamist group. The question I ask, is whether or not it would make any long term sense to fund these types of resistant movements?

    I think that "the enemy of my enemy kind of insurgency support", is bat **** crazy and has the potential to cause great blow back. What we in the West need to do, is support movements that will move Iran out of theocracy and into some sort of pluralistic-open democracy or government.

    Any support of the group that is alleged to have conducted this assassination in my view is short sighted.
    On second thought, you are absolutely right. I amend my first post in this thread. I hope we were not involved. I get excited about opposition to the regime, in hopes that it will fall. However, this was your standard indiscriminant terrorist attack and it sounds like many innocents were killed. That's not the business we need to be in.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    You shouldn't be surprised because a clear cut answer makes no sense to you?
    Um, no, I said I shouldn't be surprised that your answer makes no sense period. I shall recap:

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Individuals ask us to help them breathe free. Individuals who have no voice in their own government.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Source please, specifically with reference to to Iran?
    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    I recall there was a protest recently where hundreds of thousands took to the streets for freedom. A young woman named Neda lost her life for freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    They weren't asking us to storm in there and "help" them, they wanted an honest recount of the vote.

    I wonder how we would've liked it if a foreign nation had stormed in here after the debacle that was the Presidential election of 2000...
    ... and now, for your follow-up:

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    We haven't done anything.
    If you would explain to me how that makes any sense at all, I'd be delighted, but I don't think you can.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #83
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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Um, no, I said I shouldn't be surprised that your answer makes no sense period. I shall recap:

    ... and now, for your follow-up:

    If you would explain to me how that makes any sense at all, I'd be delighted, but I don't think you can.
    They weren't asking us to storm in there and "help" them, they wanted an honest recount of the vote.
    We haven't done anything.
    We didn't storm in there. We didn't bomb them. We have held back from helping them.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    On second thought, you are absolutely right. I amend my first post in this thread. I hope we were not involved. I get excited about opposition to the regime, in hopes that it will fall. However, this was your standard indiscriminant terrorist attack and it sounds like many innocents were killed. That's not the business we need to be in.
    I have no problem with the U.S supporting secular, pluralist or anti-theocracy movements. I just feel that we should be careful not to support the flip side of the same coin.

  5. #85
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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    bhkad,

    Do you really think that a US led effort to foment revolution in Iran would have positive results? I agree that there is nothing good about the Iranian government and I have a hard time envisioning a revolution or other upheaval that would not have positive benefits both for the Iranian and international communities. I think we can agree, however, that a failed attempt at serious intervention would have severe negative consequences, particularly given the history of US intervention into Iran.

    Unless you disagree with some of the above, the question of whether US intervention is a good thing or not depends on whether or not one thinks the US would achieve success. Our current President is unable to achieve any noticable progress on healthcare, which is shaping up to be the defining issue of his first term, or Guantanamo Bay, which he has been working on since day one. I have little faith in Obama's ability to successfully intervene in internal Iranian affairs given his apparent impotence domestically. I'm curious to know where you disagree. Do you think that an Obama-led attempt at direct intervention would be successful or do you think that the consequences of failure are less important than other positive effect that would be gained from intervention?

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I never said that there was any connection, only that you always cast scenarios in the world in terms of your communist lense.
    Communism is an economic system, and I usually "cast scenarios in the world" in terms of my libertarian lens, particularly in this area.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I read up on jingoism, not really knowing what it means. I've heard it used in a derogatory manner. It turns out that that is my position as stated. I'm ok with that.
    That may be the case, but others see negative consequences to petty nationalism and oppose it accordingly. That seems to be a consistent and justifiable position.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I see no such divergence. There is no requirement that awareness precede fulfillment. Truth be told, and I am not very knowledgable about those activities, but I am not sure how my interests were met. I presume some relation to the Soviet Union. Ancient History.
    There is, and more importantly, there's been no observable benefit to the anti-democratic and authoritarian international policies of U.S. political regimes either for the citizens of the U.S. themselves or for the populations directly affected, while there's been a significant number of negative consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Sure they are.
    No, they aren't. As nationality does not alter one's ability to function as a rational moral agent and experience happiness and suffering to the same degree as other rational moral agents, it's not useful in determining the moral status of actions committed that affect the happiness or suffering of such persons.

  7. #87
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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    We didn't storm in there. We didn't bomb them. We have held back from helping them.
    Okay, so now that I better understand what you're getting at it still doesn't make sense, given the context of the conversation.

    You implied the Iranians were asking for our help in feeing them from tyranny or whatever.

    I said that they just wanted a fair election, and referenced our own difficulties from 2000 to demonstrate that they don't want military assistance just because they election was obviously rigged.

    Your response was to say we haven't gone in there and done anything.

    Your response makes no sense because I wasn't saying we had gone in there, I was saying they don't want us to.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Okay, so now that I better understand what you're getting at it still doesn't make sense, given the context of the conversation.

    You implied the Iranians were asking for our help in feeing them from tyranny or whatever.

    I said that they just wanted a fair election, and referenced our own difficulties from 2000 to demonstrate that they don't want military assistance just because they election was obviously rigged.

    Your response was to say we haven't gone in there and done anything.

    Your response makes no sense because I wasn't saying we had gone in there, I was saying they don't want us to.
    Such pedantry bores me. Must I explain everything to you?

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    bhkad,

    Do you really think that a US led effort to foment revolution in Iran would have positive results? I agree that there is nothing good about the Iranian government and I have a hard time envisioning a revolution or other upheaval that would not have positive benefits both for the Iranian and international communities. I think we can agree, however, that a failed attempt at serious intervention would have severe negative consequences, particularly given the history of US intervention into Iran.

    Unless you disagree with some of the above, the question of whether US intervention is a good thing or not depends on whether or not one thinks the US would achieve success. Our current President is unable to achieve any noticable progress on healthcare, which is shaping up to be the defining issue of his first term, or Guantanamo Bay, which he has been working on since day one. I have little faith in Obama's ability to successfully intervene in internal Iranian affairs given his apparent impotence domestically. I'm curious to know where you disagree. Do you think that an Obama-led attempt at direct intervention would be successful or do you think that the consequences of failure are less important than other positive effect that would be gained from intervention?
    No, I don't.

    OBL 11/24/02

  10. #90
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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Such pedantry bores me. Must I explain everything to you?
    No, but you must make sense within the context of the discussion.

    Now, that said, can you actually produce evidence of your earlier claim, or are you just dancing around the fact that you have none?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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