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Thread: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

  1. #71
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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    You don't even know where the US gets its oil from, do you? There, have a look: Where does the USA get it's oil? Various countries...

    So why does your country need to control ME and Caspian oil and gas?
    Your link is bad. Again, we don't need to control the oil. We don't control Iraqi oil today, Iraq does.

    If I recall correctly, we take about 16% of ME oil. But it's a market. You know what that means right? If a regional war broke out in the ME and oil production was impacted, that would drop supply out of the market and China and all the other countries that need oil would still need it. Price would skyrocket.

    Why are we the guarantor of security in the ME? Because we inhirited that role from France and Briton after WWII.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Subjective ethics are perfectly reasonable. I am lucky to have dropped out of the "snatch" I did. Are you unhappy with your "snatch"? This is a great country to be a part of and I'll continue to promote its interests over a country such as Cuba or Venezuela or Iran. Of course, I have problems with those countries' governments and not their peoples.
    The jingoist does tend to conflate political administrations with national citizens. Regardless, my point was that the interests of the U.S. political and capital classes are not superior to those of average citizens of other countries, and are likely to be inferior, for that matter. If promotion of the interests of those classes causes more suffering than the corresponding happiness caused, there's sufficient basis for declaring that unethical.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Nonsense...
    There's not even the illusion of an argument contained here.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    The jingoist does tend to conflate political administrations with national citizens. Regardless, my point was that the interests of the U.S. political and capital classes are not superior to those of average citizens of other countries, and are likely to be inferior, for that matter. If promotion of the interests of those classes causes more suffering than the corresponding happiness caused, there's sufficient basis for declaring that unethical.
    First of all, I am not a jingoist. You of course cast things in your communist rhetoric, so in your view the interests of the US are merely the interests of the political and capital classes. I view them as the interests of all Americans. They are superior interests.

    The reality is that the promotion of the interests of the US align with the interests of the average citizens of those countries.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    First of all, I am not a jingoist. You of course cast things in your communist rhetoric, so in your view the interests of the US are merely the interests of the political and capital classes. I view them as the interests of all Americans. They are superior interests.
    'Jingoist' is not communist rhetoric.

    The reality is that the promotion of the interests of the US align with the interests of the average citizens of those countries.
    Yeah thats worked out great in places like vietnam...
    And Iran...
    Last edited by MKULTRABOY; 10-18-09 at 09:27 PM. Reason: to get my point across

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    You of course cast things in your communist rhetoric,
    That's right, but I always gladly admit it...not that identification of your jingoism bears any necessary connection to my advocacy of communist economic structure

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    so in your view the interests of the US are merely the interests of the political and capital classes. I view them as the interests of all Americans. They are superior interests.

    The reality is that the promotion of the interests of the US align with the interests of the average citizens of those countries.
    No, it's just a matter of acknowledging that the nature of republicanism will always necessitate some degree of divergence between the will of the ruling political administration of the day, the will of the electorate with no ability to recall disloyal executives, and the will of the wider citizenry with no firm commitment to the political process for one reason or another but with an interest in domestic and international policy of the ascendant regime nonetheless. There's scarcely an awareness among the U.S. citizenry of the anti-democratic removals of such figures as Mossadeq, Arbenz, and Allende or the sponsorship of the Shah, the Contras, Somoza, Batista, Marcos, etc., so it's difficult to claim that there's any active fulfillment of their interests involved in those political actions...not that the interests of U.S. citizens are superior to those of citizens of other countries or that utility discriminates according to nationality. There's certainly no ethical basis for claiming so.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Welcome to WWIII....
    If you analyse it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. -Ronald Reagan

    I am also known as "vauge".

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    I am a bit bemused as to why some people hope that the U.S was somehow involved in this attack. For me this kind of attitude is what helped to foster the Taleban and Al-Queda.

    The people that conducted this attack are most likely a Sunni-Islamist group. The question I ask, is whether or not it would make any long term sense to fund these types of resistant movements?

    I think that "the enemy of my enemy kind of insurgency support", is bat **** crazy and has the potential to cause great blow back. What we in the West need to do, is support movements that will move Iran out of theocracy and into some sort of pluralistic-open democracy or government.

    Any support of the group that is alleged to have conducted this assassination in my view is short sighted.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    That's right, but I always gladly admit it...not that identification of your jingoism bears any necessary connection to my advocacy of communist economic structure
    I never said that there was any connection, only that you always cast scenarios in the world in terms of your communist lense.

    I read up on jingoism, not really knowing what it means. I've heard it used in a derogatory manner. It turns out that that is my position as stated. I'm ok with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    No, it's just a matter of acknowledging that the nature of republicanism will always necessitate some degree of divergence between the will of the ruling political administration of the day, the will of the electorate with no ability to recall disloyal executives, and the will of the wider citizenry with no firm commitment to the political process for one reason or another but with an interest in domestic and international policy of the ascendant regime nonetheless. There's scarcely an awareness among the U.S. citizenry of the anti-democratic removals of such figures as Mossadeq, Arbenz, and Allende or the sponsorship of the Shah, the Contras, Somoza, Batista, Marcos, etc., so it's difficult to claim that there's any active fulfillment of their interests involved in those political actions...
    I see no such divergence. There is no requirement that awareness precede fulfillment. Truth be told, and I am not very knowledgable about those activities, but I am not sure how my interests were met. I presume some relation to the Soviet Union. Ancient History.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    not that the interests of U.S. citizens are superior to those of citizens of other countries or that utility discriminates according to nationality. There's certainly no ethical basis for claiming so.
    Sure they are.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    We haven't done anything.
    Your reply makes absolutely no sense, but then again I shouldn't be surprised...
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Top Revolutionary Guard commanders assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Your reply makes absolutely no sense, but then again I shouldn't be surprised...
    You shouldn't be surprised because a clear cut answer makes no sense to you?

    OBL 11/24/02

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