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Thread: HPD won't screen for immigration

  1. #21
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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    The sentient point is easily grasped and understood.

    At least by most of us lesser mortals
    I'd recommend chugging some ambrosia right quick then.

  2. #22
    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I'd recommend chugging some ambrosia right quick then.
    I can't... you have it.

    אשכנזי היהודי Белый Россию

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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    I can't... you have it.
    That one's cutting...Leno needs to keep his eyes peeled for the competition, apparently. Regardless, his point was that the mere presence of illegal immigrants did not necessitate their involvement in violent or unethical crime, nor did a greater prevalence of illegal immigrants necessitate an increase in the prevalence of violent or unethical crime. You then tried to compare this to guns (), despite there being a substantial empirical literature that indicates connections between gun prevalence and the negative externality of increased violent crime.

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    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    That one's cutting...Leno needs to keep his eyes peeled for the competition, apparently. Regardless, his point was that the mere presence of illegal immigrants did not necessitate their involvement in violent or unethical crime, nor did a greater prevalence of illegal immigrants necessitate an increase in the prevalence of violent or unethical crime. You then tried to compare this to guns (), despite there being a substantial empirical literature that indicates connections between gun prevalence and the negative externality of increased violent crime.
    Always enjoy your trademark lawyer-esque rambling

    Pass the ambrosia.

    אשכנזי היהודי Белый Россию

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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Always enjoy your trademark lawyer-esque rambling

    Pass the ambrosia.
    I sense that you're sticking with some harder liquids yourself.

  6. #26
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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I sense that you're sticking with some harder liquids yourself.
    Not really. I do have pretty neat little wine-rack room though

    Salut

    אשכנזי היהודי Белый Россию

  7. #27
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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    A performance-based live and let live philosophy that excuses/ignores an initial illegal act (illegal entry).

    Utilizing such a philosophy, one could also extrapolate that no one who purchases a gun illegally should be prosecuted and the weapon confiscated unless and/or until they commit a crime with said weapon.
    I'd compare it more to something like public drunkeness laws. The truth is, 99 times out of 100 you can be drunk as a skunk in public and the cops will ignore it. But, as soon as you make any trouble or start bothering people, they'll charge you. As a society, that's how we want it enforced. We don't want obnoxious drunks annoying everybody, but we do want people to be able to walk home from the bar when they're drunk instead of driving. So, we settle on passing a broad law and trusting the cops to enforce it only when appropriate.

    I see immigration enforcement the same way. Nothing is gained by deporting an illegal immigrant who is here working hard in exchange for very small sums of money, staying strictly out of trouble with the law, and not bothering anybody. In fact, we lose out if we deport folks like that. They're a huge asset to our country. If we deported every illegal alien tonight, we would lose the $1.7 trillion they spend here every year, $650 billion in production, and 8.1 million legal jobs would disappear because of companies that need sub minimum wage labor to survive. Basically, we'd turn this recession into a great depression overnight. Not to mention millions of families would be broken up, lots of children who are citizens would need to move out of the country with their parents, lots of households would lose nannies or maids that have lived with them for decades, etc. The human toll would be even larger than the massive economic toll. The truth is that nobody wants that. So, we compromise on the sort of enforcement we have in place- if somebody complains, if the illegal alien gets arrested, or if there is any kind of problem, they can be deported. If not, we more or less turn a blind eye. I think that's about the ideal approach, and no matter what they claim when they're campaigning, that's exactly what politicians in both party actually push for when in office. Why should we change that?
    Last edited by teamosil; 10-18-09 at 03:26 AM.

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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Houston has been a sanctuary city for a long time. The voters in the city have been opposed to strict enforcement of immigration laws inside city limits for a long time. Most the big cities in the US are sanctuary cities. If somebody is a contributing member of the community and doesn't get in any trouble with the law, there is no reason to deport them. And, as the Arpaio debacle made plain, that enforcement program degenerates very quickly into racial profiling and harrasment of groups of people (citizens and not) based on their ethnicity. Houstonians rightly want no part of that.
    If someone comes here illegally, they are already 'in trouble with the law.' Furthermore, if they aren't here legally, then the income that they earn is not federally taxed. That means any federal services that they use, which would include their safety via the CIA, Army, Navy, etc. (just to name one specific aspect of federal services), is being received for free.

    The solution to this problem is two-fold: (1) enforce immigration laws while reforming and streamlining the legal immigration process and (2) move to a consumption tax which capture taxes on the economic transactions of these illegal aliens.

  9. #29
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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Caedon View Post
    enforce immigration laws while reforming and streamlining the legal immigration process
    I partly agree. What I would like would be to have strict border enforcement, and definitely streamline the legal immigration process, but once somebody is already here I'd rather focus on getting them into the system and paying taxes than booting them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caedon View Post
    move to a consumption tax which capture taxes on the economic transactions of these illegal aliens.
    I totally disagree with this one. Consumption taxes are extremely regressive. The very wealthy only spend a tiny percentage of their income on taxable goods. So, we'd have to shift huge amounts of tax burden down to the middle classes. Assuming you're talking something like fair tax, the poor would get by with the rebate, but the taxes on the middle class would have to at least double to make it be revenue neutral. The percentages the fair tax advocates claim would be sufficient are absolutely false. They're based on all kinds of incorrect assumptions and data. Most the independant studies that I've seen of the idea have concluded that when you figure in things like tax evasion, black markets, reduced consumption, etc, we'd actually need something more like a 70% consumption tax for it to produce as much revenue as the income tax does today. That'd be crippling for the middle class.

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    Re: HPD won't screen for immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Not really. I do have pretty neat little wine-rack room though

    Salut
    Getting kinda random there, though not consistent. When your friend sutherland speaks like I do, he's "articulate," but when I do it, I'm "lawyer-esque" and "pseudo-intellectual."

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