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Firefighter Suspended Over Flag Sticker

MyOwnDrum said:
I think some people feel that this is the United States of America, and our flag should not be offensive to anyone who chooses to live here, even immigrants.
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I agree they are genuflecting on the symbol. And I really have no problem with a symbol being posted on the locker American Flag or any other flag or symbol.
 
winston53660 said:
If one person is allowed to post a symbol on their locker why shouldn't other people be allowed to post the symbol of their choice?
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You can't be serious... Did you just equivocate the American flag as any other symbol? So, what, is it no different than the swastika?

The American flag is not just another symbol.

winston53660 said:
I agree they are genuflecting on the symbol. And I really have no problem with a symbol being posted on the locker American Flag or any other flag or symbol.
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That is just silly and absurd. Symbols actually mean things, and while your education has no doubt told you 'everyone is special in their own unique and individual way,' the fact is: it doesn't work that way.
 
Metternich said:
That is just silly and absurd. Symbols actually mean things, and while your education has no doubt told you 'everyone is special in their own unique and individual way,' the fact is: it doesn't work that way.
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Actually my education is in studio art where we study symbols extensively.
 
winston53660 said:
Actually my education is in studio art where we study symbols extensively.
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Oh so everyone shutup, the global expert is here. Okay, go ahead, impress us.
 
Metternich said:
Thus, you realize there is a difference between an American flag and a Crescent Moon?
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I realize they are both merely symbols meaning different things to different people.
 
Metternich said:
Thus, you realize there is a difference between an American flag and a Crescent Moon?
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No such provisions were made for it in the policy, however, and there is only a limited capacity for an administration to make such provisions (if it can at all). Because then it can be alleged it is about the persons and not the symbols.

Problem is, the guy with the Crescent Moon can make any number of arguments as to why he is being faulted and the guy with the American flag is not. That they are anti-commonsensical won't matter once we are out of common sense and into law.
 
rivrrat said:
This is the kind of dumbass rules you get when ****ing idiots bitch and moan and scream 'offensive' at the tiniest bull**** things.
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I just hope he didn't bring a camping utensil to the station...then there would be real trouble ;)
 
Jerry said:
This has nothing to do with the flag.

This has to do with personal items, regardless of what it is.

It's just a sticker, take it off.
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Too easy... ;)
 
Oftencold said:
So you feel that any rule is justified by the fact that it is a rule.

Intersting. So, how do you justify any objection or rebellion against any rule anywhere?
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No, if there is a problem with a rule, the option is to change the rule. If the rule is there,and you break the rule, you are accepting the consequences of breaking that rule.
 
American said:
Here we go again impuning heros. Just like the boy scout in the other thread I see a pattern forming. Let's start standing them against the wall for putting a sticker of an American flag on their locker, with a real flag fluttering in the wind outside the building. Redress, you're losing credibility fast, really fast. Make me want to puke how liberals hide behind regulations to spew their hate while defending the dismantalization of the Constitution. Hypocrites all of them.
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Where have I impugned any one? Where have I commented on boy scouts? Where are you coming up with this crap?

This has nothing to do with it being a flag sticker, and everything to do with an easy and sensible rule that one guy cannot be bothered to follow.

It's nice seeing you post something more than your usual 4 or 5 word posts, but you only added hyperbole and exaggeration with the extra length. There is no constitutional issue here, ho hiding behind anything. The guy is in the wrong because he chose to disobey a simple rule, and further in the wrong because he chose to use the media to make a big deal out of it, and is trying to hide behind the flag to protect his rulebreaking.
 
Redress said:
You are correct, but they where offended at a potentially racist cartoon. Most work places would do the same. No one was offended by the flag sticker.
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Any rule that applies to all and is enforced over all is not illegal. Since the reason that this extreme rule was created is because there was a “racist” cartoon posted on a locker.
The fire department could have said that flags are allowed but what flags? American ok ! Black power ? Not so ok since that is considered racist by certain people. How about the Irsh flag ? In many North East states the Irish control the fire departments. What about the Gay flag ? If someone is very religious that could be an affront to them.

The department could have said only American flags can be attached to lockers. OK fine ! What size ? 3x5 inched 4x6 inches, 12 x 16 !!!

As someone else has said, common sense should have prevailed but it did not.
 
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It would look very boring and Commie/Fascist to have only American flags on lockers, as if all the firefighters are very good obedient servants of the great America, know no other, America greatest nation in all world, glory be to America!
 
Redress said:
No, this is a situation where you can change the rules if you don't like it, but any one who refuses to obey them should be punished. When the guy refused to remove it after being told it was against regulations, he forced management to give him a penalty.
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Oh how simple things must be in your world. Unfortunately for you, some people believe that certain laws/rules should be changed. Instead of everyone going crazy over this issue, why don't we all take a look at the rule and why it is there, and does that rule make logical sense? Not being able to display a flag (of any country) does not make any damn sense. If you are willing to just blindly follow laws because "it's the law". . . than so be it, but I do not think that is intelligent.

Your argument basically says "He broke the law, it doesn't matter how unfair, unjust, or down right insane the law is, the fact of the matter is, it is the law, therefore he should be in trouble for breaking it."

Do you want to know who else used to say such things? During the civil rights movement people didn't care what happened to blacks because "it was the law" the law said blacks and whites shouldn't be together in schools, and people like YOU would just be happy to sit back and say, well "it's the law" if they break it, they should be punished. I am sorry, but YOU are making a grave mistake to just follow these laws and rules blindly. Absolutely absurd.

I substituted the word law into it instead of rule. But you understand the gist of my point.
 
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Rightwing86 said:
Oh how simple things must be in your world. Unfortunately for you, some people believe that certain laws/rules should be changed. Instead of everyone going crazy over this issue, why don't we all take a look at the rule and why it is there, and does that rule make logical sense? Not being able to display a flag (of any country) does not make any damn sense. If you are willing to just blindly follow laws because "it's the law". . . than so be it, but I do not think that is intelligent.

Your argument basically says "He broke the law, it doesn't matter how unfair, unjust, or down right insane the law is, the fact of the matter is, it is the law, therefore he should be in trouble for breaking it."

Do you want to know who else used to say such things? During the civil rights movement people didn't care what happened to blacks because "it was the law" the law said blacks and whites shouldn't be together in schools, and people like YOU would just be happy to sit back and say, well "it's the law" if they break it, they should be punished. I am sorry, but YOU are making a grave mistake to just follow these laws and rules blindly. Absolutely absurd.

I substituted the word law into it instead of rule. But you understand the gist of my point.
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This is not the civil rights movement, not even close. Let's not go making a mountain out of a molehill. If the rule itself is a problem(actually, it's not, many employers who give lockers to employees have similar rules), I have no problem with changing the rule. However, if when warned there will be a consequence of not following the rule, there should be follow through. There where better ways of handling it, instead of trying to make himself a martyr in the media.
 
Rightwing86 said:
Oh how simple things must be in your world. Unfortunately for you, some people believe that certain laws/rules should be changed. Instead of everyone going crazy over this issue, why don't we all take a look at the rule and why it is there, and does that rule make logical sense?
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Actually, yes. Yes it does. The fire department had received complaints from employees who were offended by crap that people posted on their lockers. Since the management probably had better things to do than decide on a case-by-case basis whether the things on lockers were offensive, they made a general rule that people couldn't put things on the outside of their locker at all anymore. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
 
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Kandahar said:
Actually, yes. Yes it does. The fire department had received complaints from employees who were offended by crap that people posted on their lockers. Since the management probably had better things to do than decide on a case-by-case basis whether the things on lockers were offensive, they made a general rule that people couldn't put things on the outside of their locker at all anymore. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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You're right. It is a pretty sensible rule but I think they're being just as lame as the fire fighter for enforcing it. I wouldn't have told him to take it off if I were the boss and I wouldn't have refused to comply if I were the fire fighter.

Americans just like being dramatic about everything. It's a symptom of neurotic mainstream culture.
 
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