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Thread: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

  1. #21
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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    ****, this is bad news for me. I'm employed, a smoker, overweight and a diabetic. I'm going to pay the new tax, and the surcharge. I'm still in favor of a healthcare bill, but I don't like how I'm going to have to pay for it.
    i sympathize, sincerely

    just imagine how this reality is gonna play across the landscape entire, not just how it impacts any one of us

    single mothers forced to pony up, all across the nation

    youth criminalized for not carrying coverage and hit with fines

    massive tax increases on the lower and middle class

    seniors crucified

    not smart politics, the point

    take care of yourself, and be happy, friend

    have a wonderful sunday, cliff

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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Wrong. Any form of stimulus takes time to get going. 6 months to a year easy before any results at all are seen, usually longer. There is no "immediate response" stimulus out there, not even tax cuts.
    sure, that's what the president meant when he said, "shovel ready"

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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    How does something fail before it's finished? Can I sue a contractor because my building isn't fully operational even though the foundation isn't up yet? Should I sue an anti-virus company because my computer isn't protected from viruses even though the installation is only at 50%?

    You people who spin things because you're blinded by hatred and bias are amusing at best. I don't understand why people take you seriously. "Even though the stimulus plan isn't finished, I'm going to shout to the world that it is full of failure!"

    Tell you what. When the stimulus is done and an adequate amount of time has been taken for the full effects of it to be felt, then you can proclaim its failure. Until then, you're just talking out your butt.
    Can I fly if I never try?

    One of the definitions of failure, is not being able to start. If we are in a race, and I never leave the starting line, how can you say I won?

    You can sue a contractor if the foundations are not up, if they will never be up and the time for them to be up has long past.

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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    i sympathize, sincerely

    just imagine how this reality is gonna play across the landscape entire, not just how it impacts any one of us

    single mothers forced to pony up, all across the nation

    youth criminalized for not carrying coverage and hit with fines

    massive tax increases on the lower and middle class

    seniors crucified

    not smart politics, the point

    take care of yourself, and be happy, friend

    have a wonderful sunday, cliff
    Thanks, mate. I'm doing well. 10,000 steps a day for exercise.

    I just find it hard to swallow 1000 pages of healthcare bill. Surely they can follow the KISS principle. I don't mean to hijack a stimulus bill thread with healthcare.

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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    sure, that's what the president meant when he said, "shovel ready"
    Compared to the normal way, it is "shovel ready" but that does not mean that getting the funding will happen overnight nor that the projects will start the next day.

    There are so many delays due to the normal run of business and that is on top of the bureaucracy put in place to avoid as much fraud as possible. It is not Iraq 2003.

    First off it requires the locals to have a plan ready.. some have some do not. When they have a plan then they have to apply for the money and that takes time too. The Feds have to approve the plan and then the money is released some what I bet and that is if the stimulus is not blocked by partisan politics in the area. We have seen certain republican's refuse stimulus money but get overturned by their local congress for example.. all takes time. Then the locals have to find the contractors, make a bidding round, sign contracts and then only then can you get near the perceived "shovel ready" stage. All this takes months. Alone the bidding round takes weeks if not months since the contractors have to be given time to put a bid in place.

    Like it or not, no "stimulus", Republican or Democratic is ever "shovel ready" in the way it works from the day after it is put in place.. massive building or tax cuts do not work that way.
    Last edited by PeteEU; 10-18-09 at 12:19 PM.
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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    First off it requires the locals to have a plan ready.. some have some do not. When they have a plan then they have to apply for the money and that takes time too. The Feds have to approve the plan and then the money is released some what I bet and that is if the stimulus is not blocked by partisan politics in the area. We have seen certain republican's refuse stimulus money but get overturned by their local congress for example.. all takes time. Then the locals have to find the contractors, make a bidding round, sign contracts and then only then can you get near the perceived "shovel ready" stage. All this takes months. Alone the bidding round takes weeks if not months since the contractors have to be given time to put a bid in place.
    Who is the federal government is managing the release of stimulus funds to approved bidders? They should let FEMA manage this, as they have all the infrastructure in place to allocate, obligate, process payment requests, amend and track payments. I know all about it as I work on that FEMA system. They probably stood up a new system and called it part of the stimulus to stimulate.

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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Who is the federal government is managing the release of stimulus funds to approved bidders? They should let FEMA manage this, as they have all the infrastructure in place to allocate, obligate, process payment requests, amend and track payments. I know all about it as I work on that FEMA system. They probably stood up a new system and called it part of the stimulus to stimulate.
    Dunno, but not the point. Even if it went through FEMA it would take time... unless of course every single piece of work was done by government run companies.. which I highly doubt much if any are.
    PeteEU

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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Dunno, but not the point. Even if it went through FEMA it would take time... unless of course every single piece of work was done by government run companies.. which I highly doubt much if any are.
    For budget spending, you can do it in a day, if you have all the info. For projects like building repairs that take inspections, it takes a week or more. How long has it been...9 months! They could do it faster is my point.

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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    For budget spending, you can do it in a day, if you have all the info. For projects like building repairs that take inspections, it takes a week or more. How long has it been...9 months! They could do it faster is my point.
    If done solely by the government? Yes it could be done faster. But the question if it would be done better.. I remember FEMA and the waste there during Katrina.. and that too took ages to get going considering the catastrophe there and the amount of fraud and waste was not exactly small. I remember seeing a story about plastic covers for roofs that FEMA bought at highly inflated prices. Or the temporary homes that were deadly to those that lived in them. While I understand that during a Katrina like catastrophe, speed in getting aid out is paramount to accountability so waste and fraud will happen, I also understand fully that the present economic crisis is not a Katrina like catastrophe.

    However you know as I know, that most contracts will go to the private sector and doing so involves certain rules and regulations that have to be followed and that all takes time.

    And as for the 9 months.. it still requires that the locals had plans in place... I would bet most did not, so making those plans also takes time, and can easily take months due to planning laws, and other local regulations.
    PeteEU

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    Re: 30,383: First Tally On Stimulus Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Compared to the normal way, it is "shovel ready" but that does not mean that getting the funding will happen overnight nor that the projects will start the next day.

    There are so many delays due to the normal run of business and that is on top of the bureaucracy put in place to avoid as much fraud as possible. It is not Iraq 2003.

    First off it requires the locals to have a plan ready.. some have some do not. When they have a plan then they have to apply for the money and that takes time too. The Feds have to approve the plan and then the money is released some what I bet and that is if the stimulus is not blocked by partisan politics in the area. We have seen certain republican's refuse stimulus money but get overturned by their local congress for example.. all takes time. Then the locals have to find the contractors, make a bidding round, sign contracts and then only then can you get near the perceived "shovel ready" stage. All this takes months. Alone the bidding round takes weeks if not months since the contractors have to be given time to put a bid in place.

    Like it or not, no "stimulus", Republican or Democratic is ever "shovel ready" in the way it works from the day after it is put in place.. massive building or tax cuts do not work that way.
    then the prez should not have sold it as shovel ready, should he?

    "stimulus" and "takes time" are oxymoronic

    truth is, most of the spending for plan pelosi was back loaded

    this is why in june obama conceded he needed to "speed up" the stimulus

    Obama vows to speed up economic stimulus effort - USATODAY.com

    in june he said his goal (LOL!) was 600G

    he bragged he'd already "created or saved" 150G

    truth is, it was a pork bill misleadingly sold as catalyst

    truth is, leadership was in such a hurry to push this pig they wouldn't put it online like they promised

    your use of words like "normal way" and "normal run of business," forgive me, makes me LOL!

    in my respectful opinion, you need to link more and say things like "i would bet" less

    if you did, your arguments would be, for me, more grounded and less cloudily airy, out of one's own abstractions

    "all in good time" is a position few americans will have much patience for
    Last edited by The Prof; 10-18-09 at 01:07 PM.

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