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Thread: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    He used the wrong word, but his point was clear in context when he immedietely went to "Beyond a reasonable doubt" and later to preponderance of evidence. It was clear he was talking about the standard of proof since he used two examples of such in his sentence but got the word wrong imho, as the use of BARD and POE made it clear that THAT was the thing he was refering to.

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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    The quote to which I originally responded referred to burden of proof. Harshaw switched it up to standard of proof in his last post, but that was his mistake. The discussion, was about burden of proof.
    Yes, I carelessly messed up the word, confusing "burden of proof" (who has to prove what) and "standard of proof" (the level of proof needed). Mea culpa. But the meaning was plain.

    Why do you need to pick a fight with almost everything I say? You misused "burden of proof" yourself, but you note I didn't jump down your throat about it.
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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The reason why I don't feel bad for Rush, and I have stated this, is he is politically divisive and makes a living saying outrageous things, which there is nothing wrong with. However, there will be repercussions from being outrageous and divisive, and crying about it won't do any good. There is nothing wrong with me saying "Rush is an asshole and I will laugh at any bad thing that happens to him", and compared to some things said against lefties(oh, the selective outrage of you again), it's pretty mild.
    The reason I defend Rush is because while one is free to be as divisive as they want, I don't think that provides legitimate grounds to commit crimes against him.
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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    He used the wrong word, but his point was clear in context when he immedietely went to "Beyond a reasonable doubt" and later to preponderance of evidence. It was clear he was talking about the standard of proof since he used two examples of such in his sentence but got the word wrong imho, as the use of BARD and POE made it clear that THAT was the thing he was refering to.

    He was mixing them up and I chose not to highlight it. The only differences in standards of proof are between civil and criminal cases; what is different in this case is burden of proof.

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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yes, I carelessly messed up the word, confusing "burden of proof" (who has to prove what) and "standard of proof" (the level of proof needed). Mea culpa. But the meaning was plain.

    Why do you need to pick a fight with almost everything I say? You misused "burden of proof" yourself, but you note I didn't jump down your throat about it.

    I was actually trying to be polite and not highlight the mistake. Civil and criminal cases have different standards; what is particular to this case is burden of proof.


    Actually, the standard in most civil cases is the middle standard, and the standard in criminal cases is the higher standard, but all three can be in criminal cases, and the lower two can be in civil and administrative cases, I think:

    http://www.johntfloyd.com/blog/2009/...ards-of-proof/


    But again, what is particular to this case, is burden of proof.
    Last edited by jackalope; 10-16-09 at 04:32 PM. Reason: (insert word)

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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The reason I defend Rush is because while one is free to be as divisive as they want, I don't think that provides legitimate grounds to commit crimes against him.
    EXACTLY. But don't let that outrage show in Rush's case or it's just selective.

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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    He was mixing them up and I chose not to highlight it. The only differences in standards of proof are between civil and criminal cases; what is different in this case is burden of proof.
    No, actually, different civil cases can have different standards of proof; criminal cases are beyond a reasonable doubt.

    But since you're jumping on me, I'll correct you -- you said the "burden of proof" was "high," which doesn't make sense unless you yourself meant "standard of proof." So, don't throw stones.
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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, actually, different civil cases can have different standards of proof; criminal cases are beyond a reasonable doubt.

    But since you're jumping on me, I'll correct you -- you said the "burden of proof" was "high," which doesn't make sense unless you yourself meant "standard of proof." So, don't throw stones.

    I did not mix up my terms, I used burden of proof with the tests to be met. You did mix up your terms, so focusing on the relevant one was not a mistake on my part.

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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, actually, different civil cases can have different standards of proof; criminal cases are beyond a reasonable doubt.

    But since you're jumping on me, I'll correct you -- you said the "burden of proof" was "high," which doesn't make sense unless you yourself meant "standard of proof." So, don't throw stones.

    Actually, that's wrong too. All three levels can be used in a criminal case (but the higher is usual). However, I did already edit my post to correct the civil is this and criminal is that comment.

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    Re: Sources: Checketts to drop Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    I did not mix up my terms, I used burden of proof with the tests to be met.

    Yeah, and I mentioned the tests to be met, too:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    What Limbaugh initially has to prove is not difficult -- CNN, for example, clearly made the false statement, it was made to third parties, and it was definitely about Limbaugh himself.

    On that, CNN would have to prove "truth," which they probably can't -- other possible defenses such as consent, privilege, "opinion," "fair" comments, inadvertence, etc., almost certainly do not apply.

    The one thing Limbaugh would have to prove which would be difficult is, because he's a public figure, that CNN had actual malice toward him (NYT vs. Sullivan). But their further reluctance to retract the statement when challenged, essentially doubling down on the charge, may help him there, as it may establish that CNN had a reckless disregard for the truth.

    And you said here:

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    The burden of proof for media reporting on public figures is quite high.
    Now, I would have been inclined to let this go and assume you meant what I was referring to, the need to show actual malice, but since you're being so ridiculous concerning what I said (as usual), I'll make an issue of it.

    If you were referring to the standard of proof, then you used the wrong word. If you were referring to the duty to show malice, then the point was meaningless, because I had already said it. What I'm guessing, then, is that -- once again -- you simply didn't read what I wrote.

    Either way, it doesn't speak especially well of you.

    (And you picked this fight. I, at least, admitted to my own mistake.)
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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