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Dutch right-winger Geert Wilders wins challenge against British ban

So you are saying that in the US, you can in any city without getting permission from the local police, start up a protest march of many people?

Usually, less you're leading a parade down a street or something like that. If you're just going to corners or parks or whatever to protest and wave signs, it's fine. Less you're on private property, then you have to get the property owner's permission.

No I never stated that and it was never intended to be anything other than a comment about entering the US since the whole subject is about entering a country.

The way you stated thing conveyed that meaning though.
 
Usually, less you're leading a parade down a street or something like that. If you're just going to corners or parks or whatever to protest and wave signs, it's fine. Less you're on private property, then you have to get the property owner's permission.

Same over here funny enough.
 
Same over here funny enough.

Some places have made it so that permit is needed in general. The government has to be advised, basically. I don't like that in the least. Protest must be protected.
 
So you are saying that in the US, you can in any city without getting permission from the local police, start up a protest march of many people?

No, you can't and the reason for getting a permit is for safety reasons. If you apply for a permit, then local law enforcement has a heads up so they can prepare for crowd control, traffic control and and any security that may be needed. Also, EMS and fire department personel are aware that a parade, protest, etc. is taking place and can take alternate routes, rather than getting clogged up in those areas. Plus, the liscense fee counts as revenue.

There's a very good, common sense reason for requiring permits for public gatherings.
 
No, you can't and the reason for getting a permit is for safety reasons. If you apply for a permit, then local law enforcement has a heads up so they can prepare for crowd control, traffic control and and any security that may be needed. Also, EMS and fire department personel are aware that a parade, protest, etc. is taking place and can take alternate routes, rather than getting clogged up in those areas. Plus, the liscense fee counts as revenue.

There's a very good, common sense reason for requiring permits for public gatherings.

No, if you want to use something like public roads, then yes you have to. If I want to get a group of people together to protest at the corner, I don't need a permit. Nor should a permit ever be required for those situations.
 
No, if you want to use something like public roads, then yes you have to. If I want to get a group of people together to protest at the corner, I don't need a permit. Nor should a permit ever be required for those situations.

It depends on the number of people, I guess. However, a corner protest can quickly overflow onto a thoroughfare. If it's a group of klansmen protesting in a black neighborhood, the prudance would dictate a permit be required, so police can be ready for the trouble. I have no problem with requiring a permit to gather on public property, just as long as those permits are automatically granted and not denied for political reasons.
 
It depends on the number of people, I guess. However, a corner protest can quickly overflow onto a thoroughfare. If it's a group of klansmen protesting in a black neighborhood, the prudance would dictate a permit be required, so police can be ready for the trouble. I have no problem with requiring a permit to gather on public property, just as long as those permits are automatically granted and not denied for political reasons.

I think any permit system would become just such. Which is why I oppose permits (permits means getting permission) for exercise of rights.
 
I think any permit system would become just such. Which is why I oppose permits (permits means getting permission) for exercise of rights.

I understand you point, but common sense has to come into play at some point.
 
I understand you point, but common sense has to come into play at some point.

I would say that comes in when wanting to close down streets or something like that. Otherwise, I think it needs to be fair game.
 
I would say that comes in when wanting to close down streets or something like that. Otherwise, I think it needs to be fair game.

You're right, but like I say an event can quickly out grow a sidewalk and I just think that municipalalities need a heads up, so they can monitor the event. Perhaps a permit system that's free and isn't a permit for permission, as much as documentation showing that the organizers of the event gave proper notice to city officials.
 
Geert Wilders is, without a doubt, a small-minded ignoramus. However, it behooves us to allow him to express his opinions freely so that they can be exposed to criticism. By placing limits on his freedom of expression, the UK has implicitly acknowledged that they're unable or unwilling to prove him wrong.
 
Geert Wilders is, without a doubt, a small-minded ignoramus. However, it behooves us to allow him to express his opinions freely so that they can be exposed to criticism. By placing limits on his freedom of expression, the UK has implicitly acknowledged that they're unable or unwilling to prove him wrong.

Geert Wilders's warnings about Islam are right on target.
 
Geert Wilders's warnings about Islam are right on target.

Geert Wilder's warnings about Islam are a product of his small-minded ignorance. His criticisms are laughably illogical; superimposing out-of-context passages from the Qur'an over footage of terrorist acts committed by self-proclaimed Muslims does not a compelling argument against Islam make.
 
Geert Wilder's warnings about Islam are a product of his small-minded ignorance. His criticisms are laughably illogical; superimposing out-of-context passages from the Qur'an over footage of terrorist acts committed by self-proclaimed Muslims does not a compelling argument against Islam make.

His warnings are right on target. All we see coming out the Muslims communities around the world are hate and violence. We don't see Muslims trying to police any of the hatred and violence, only excuses and whining about racism. How one can be racist against a religion, I dunno, but that's what we always hear.
 
His warnings are right on target. All we see coming out the Muslims communities around the world are hate and violence. We don't see Muslims trying to police any of the hatred and violence, only excuses and whining about racism. How one can be racist against a religion, I dunno, but that's what we always hear.

Your criticisms are somewhat valid, but you've over-generalized the situation. The Islamic religion is not monolithic; its adherents subscribe to a broad range of beliefs, and only a small (albeit significant) minority of those adherents are violently radical. We Muslims have repeatedly spoken out against the violent elements within our religion.

See:

On Eid, bands against terror - India - The Times of India
200,000 protest Amman attacks - Washington Times
BBC NEWS | UK | Muslim march over shrine bombing
BLACKFIVE: Iraqis March Against Terror
:: Xinhuanet - English ::
Gateway Pundit: Massive Muslim Demonstration Against Al Qaida!!

etc.
 
Your criticisms are somewhat valid, but you've over-generalized the situation. The Islamic religion is not monolithic; its adherents subscribe to a broad range of beliefs, and only a small (albeit significant) minority of those adherents are violently radical. We Muslims have repeatedly spoken out against the violent elements within our religion.

See:

On Eid, bands against terror - India - The Times of India
200,000 protest Amman attacks - Washington Times
BBC NEWS | UK | Muslim march over shrine bombing
BLACKFIVE: Iraqis March Against Terror
:: Xinhuanet - English ::
Gateway Pundit: Massive Muslim Demonstration Against Al Qaida!!

etc.

That ain't nothin' but lip service.
 
That ain't nothin' but lip service.

Massive protests are nothing but lip service? Whatever you say. I'm sure you'd feel differently if the rallies were held in support of terror. :roll:
 
Geert Wilder's warnings about Islam are a product of his small-minded ignorance. His criticisms are laughably illogical; superimposing out-of-context passages from the Qur'an over footage of terrorist acts committed by self-proclaimed Muslims does not a compelling argument against Islam make.

If so, he shouldn't be a threat. It should be very ez to refute his claims and contest his criticism. However, that's not the case. Demonize him all you like, he's gaining support every day. You don't have to be an intellectual to understand the position Wilders takes when it comes to the rights of women, gays, jews and apostates. If you oppose muslims who kill with the koran in their hands, you'll have no problem with poor ole Geert. The idiot has been sleeping in prisons long before he made the extremic comments he's famous for. Even if his criticism is hogwash, he should be free to express it. It would be another thing if he would encourage racism or even violence, he does not.

Merely criticizing Islam could get one killed, do you find that a healthy situation?
 
Massive protests are nothing but lip service? Whatever you say. I'm sure you'd feel differently if the rallies were held in support of terror. :roll:

Those aren't massive protests against terrorism.
 
What would constitute more than lip service?

Action. Specifically, pro-action, but any kind of action from the Muslim community would be good. I would like to see the same outrage coming out of the Muslim community over terrorism that we've seen over cartoons and soiled Korans. I want to see the Muslims community root out, rat out, smoke out and expose every terrorist they know of. All we've managed to get so far is, "Terrorists aren't real Muslims", "What do yo want us to do, I mean, realy, what?", and, "Stop picking on us because you're looking for Muslim terrorists".
 
If so, he shouldn't be a threat. It should be very ez to refute his claims and contest his criticism.
That was the point I made in one of my earlier posts ITT:

...However, it behooves us to allow him to express his opinions freely so that they can be exposed to criticism. By placing limits on his freedom of expression, the UK has implicitly acknowledged that they're unable or unwilling to prove him wrong.

However, that's not the case. Demonize him all you like, he's gaining support every day.
That's understandable. Like certain leaders of past, he appeals to his followers' emotions and irrational prejudices. He attempts to stir anti-Islamic by encouraging the association of Islamic teachings with terrorist acts... if he attempted to demonstrate that Islam was a dangerous religion by putting forth cool-headed and rational arguments, he'd have my ear.

You don't have to be an intellectual to understand the position Wilders takes when it comes to the rights of women, gays, jews and apostates.
Similarly, it isn't especially difficult to see that the motivations behind the mistreatment of these groups are not purely religious. Wilders and his ilk would have us believe that every crime perpetrated by a Muslim was committed out of religious devotion.

If you oppose muslims who kill with the koran in their hands, you'll have no problem with poor ole Geert.
Why wouldn't I have a problem with him? His claim is that they kill because they have the Qur'an in their hands.

The idiot has been sleeping in prisons long before he made the extremic comments he's famous for. Even if his criticism is hogwash, he should be free to express it. It would be another thing if he would encourage racism or even violence, he does not.
I agree; see my quoted post above.

Merely criticizing Islam could get one killed, do you find that a healthy situation?
No, I don't.
 
Action. Specifically, pro-action, but any kind of action from the Muslim community would be good. I would like to see the same outrage coming out of the Muslim community over terrorism that we've seen over cartoons and soiled Korans. I want to see the Muslims community root out, rat out, smoke out and expose every terrorist they know of. All we've managed to get so far is, "Terrorists aren't real Muslims", "What do yo want us to do, I mean, realy, what?", and, "Stop picking on us because you're looking for Muslim terrorists".

Mass protests dont consitute outrage?
 
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