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Thread: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    First of all, you can't be a Boy Scout at age six. He was likely a Tiger in the Cub Scouts. Secondly he brought the camping utensils knife/fork/spoon combo to eat lunch with at school. The boy usually wears a tie to school.

    The principal should get fired for letting this whole thing go this far. Lack of common sense will be the downfall of America.
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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    Quote Originally Posted by B L Zeebub View Post
    Have you read Scouting for Boys by Badman Powell?
    Can't say I've ever heard of it.

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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    On each of the 45 days they could jab him hard with a fork. Show him what a knife can do a fluffy baby rabbit.

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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    As to the relevant parts of this, instead of just the bitter complaints,
    the point is that the kid is six years old and not posing any threat according to all accounts. It was a simple mistake. And I posed questions to get conversations going about whether or not common sense should apply to cases where zero tolerance rules are extreme. My quotes regard my questions.
    You need to learn that the casual reader needs context first.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So what is wrong with the school administrators actually finding out the situation before automatically sending a six year old to reform school for 45 days?
    Like the fact that this has nothing to do with the Boy Scouts in any way?

    I wonder why you chose a Boy-Scout hit-piece to make a thread on.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This isn't one of those cases where the kid was being bullied or threatened other children. This child just thought he had something new that was worth showing off. A six year old doesn't fully understand school rules yet. And, although I do believe the parents could have been a little more responsible about looking into what he was taking to school with him, this really isn't a good reason to so severely punish such a young child. From all the facts we have of this story, there needs to be more leeway for administrators to be able to use their own common sense in certain cases, particularly like this. A better way to handle this kind of situation would have been to bring the child and his parents into the school and explain all the rules and the importance of those rules, and possibly some small punishment for the child. Then the school could even spend time the next day or later that week explaining in detail, especially to the younger students, all those things that might be considered a weapon and that shouldn't be brought to school.
    I've seen and own a few of these tools. Was the "knife" a dull utensil or was it a sharp blade?

    You're still leaving out critical details.

    If it was a mere dull utensil, then the school is wrong.

    If it holds an edge, the school is right and he deserves the suspension.

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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    On each of the 45 days they could jab him hard with a fork. Show him what a knife can do a fluffy baby rabbit.
    Great, now I'm hungry.

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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Should there be common sense exceptions to "zero tolerance" rules?

    Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork - CBS News



    Is it really asking too much to take intent into consideration when these incidents occur? How about if we also look at character and personality and mood?
    The point is to remove any legal consequence from the school. So they have to do stupid stuff like this. Because if you let reasonable things, people have to examine all the different cases and see if they are reasonable and within guidelines. And if they somehow may the wrong choice, or if somehow even the reasonable choice yields bad things; their ass is on the line. So instead, they do zero tolerance. Partly because they are lazy, partly because the rest of us can't seem to do anything without suing someone else.
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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    First of all, you can't be a Boy Scout at age six. He was likely a Tiger in the Cub Scouts. Secondly he brought the camping utensils knife/fork/spoon combo to eat lunch with at school. The boy usually wears a tie to school.

    The principal should get fired for letting this whole thing go this far. Lack of common sense will be the downfall of America.
    But that's the whole point of zero tolerance nonsense... they take the option for common sense out of the equation and it's not the Principals fault, nor the teachers fault. It's the school district, school board and politicians who support such BS zero tolerance policies. Let's put the blame where it due and if the citizens really really wanted to overturn this, it would take very little to pressure the politicians with their jobs next election to get it done.

    The issue here is, while communities may be up in arms and outraged at such a lack of common sense - they quickly forget when someone shoves Columbine or WV Tech in their face and make them choose:

    Common sense + a minor mistake = 4 dead kids
    OR
    Zero common sense + stupid zero tolerance policy = 1 live expelled kid


    That's an easy choice, and this is why as someone already pointed out, common sense is being bred out of us. We (the collective we) lack the courage to make common sense decisions, therefore, we turn into an Idiocracy of dumb people following dumb zero tolerance policies... all "for the common good".

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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Like the fact that this has nothing to do with the Boy Scouts in any way?

    I wonder why you chose a Boy-Scout hit-piece to make a thread on.
    I chose to share the story I came across. Reading the rules for posting in this section, I saw that I had to use the title of the news story as my title. If it would have been up to me, I would have changed it.

    I have nothing against the Boy Scouts. However, I can see the point the news agency was going for in using the boy scout angle, even if I don't agree with it. The tool that the knife was on was given to him for his involvement in the boy scouts. The use of this information was to help put a little perspective in the story, biased toward the child, by the news agency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I've seen and own a few of these tools. Was the "knife" a dull utensil or was it a sharp blade?

    You're still leaving out critical details.

    If it was a mere dull utensil, then the school is wrong.

    If it holds an edge, the school is right and he deserves the suspension.
    I don't agree. The intent of the child was important for a couple of reasons. First, the tool had multiple parts so it could be used without even pulling the knife out. From the account that is provided, the intent of the child to bring the tool was along the lines of he wanted to show off something he felt he should be proud of and/or get as much use as he could out of his newest possession. Second, intent is even considered in adult laws, so why should it be ignored on rules that we have for our children? If a person accidentally kills someone then it is a far less punishment than if the person did it on purpose. Also, the boy was described as a child who loved school, and the parents even had a character witness for him. If there was a history of violence concerning the boy or a reason for someone to suspect that he really did intend harm to someone at school, then the punishment would be justified. Another thing that matters is that in Delaware, where this occurred, it was just recently ruled that exceptions could be made to policies on knives when the punishment was expulsion.

    Now the parents should have made it clear that he couldn't take the tool to school because of the knife, but even parents make mistakes. I don't see a problem with some parent/teacher/child counseling and some small punishment for the child but 45 days in reform school is too harsh. And to help prevent cases like this from occurring in the future, the school could give students, especially younger students, more clarification on what things would be considered weapons, including those that a child might bring in for some innocent reason. Letters to parents detailing this might be good too.

    Considering the state has made exceptions in other cases where intent was taken into consideration, it shouldn't be too much to ask that an exception be made in this case.
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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The point is to remove any legal consequence from the school. So they have to do stupid stuff like this. Because if you let reasonable things, people have to examine all the different cases and see if they are reasonable and within guidelines. And if they somehow may the wrong choice, or if somehow even the reasonable choice yields bad things; their ass is on the line. So instead, they do zero tolerance. Partly because they are lazy, partly because the rest of us can't seem to do anything without suing someone else.
    Thank You!

    This is idiocy on the schools part, but society as a whole is as much to blame as the school itself. Our sue happy, blame happy, "its everyone elses fault except mine" society is what caused this. We've became a society where if individuals make mistakes they can say sorry and all will be forgiven, but if groups...schools, corporations, etc...make a mistake then they must be taken for all their worth. The schools try to do things by "common sense" and they are examined with a fine tooth comb, every action taken is called into consideration, and one time little timmy's mom thinks the schools been oh so unreasonable with him and has damaged her poor little timmy so much that she needs to sue them. So over time instead of leaving it up to the teachers or principles to use common sense in each individual situation you foster a culture where it is far less troublesome on the part of the school to take any kind of reasoning out of the equation and make it a simple "yes or no" type of thing.

    Those kinds of policies in schools are absolutely idiotic. But society as a whole is greatly at fault for those policies to have come into being in the first place.

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    Re: Boy Scout, 6, Suspended for Fork

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    But that's the whole point of zero tolerance nonsense... they take the option for common sense out of the equation and it's not the Principals fault, nor the teachers fault. It's the school district, school board and politicians who support such BS zero tolerance policies. Let's put the blame where it due and if the citizens really really wanted to overturn this, it would take very little to pressure the politicians with their jobs next election to get it done.

    The issue here is, while communities may be up in arms and outraged at such a lack of common sense - they quickly forget when someone shoves Columbine or WV Tech in their face and make them choose:

    Common sense + a minor mistake = 4 dead kids
    OR
    Zero common sense + stupid zero tolerance policy = 1 live expelled kid


    That's an easy choice, and this is why as someone already pointed out, common sense is being bred out of us. We (the collective we) lack the courage to make common sense decisions, therefore, we turn into an Idiocracy of dumb people following dumb zero tolerance policies... all "for the common good".
    I cannot believe that a principal has zero discretion. These guys make well in excess of $100K, and they run the school. It's hard to believe that there is no case by case evaluation.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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