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Thread: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Clinton left men to die. Clinton was more concerned with international reputation, than the lives of those he kept in harms way.
    To what do you attribute GWB's excuse?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Are you REALLY going to stand by this position? It bears very little resemblance to the facts.
    Those are exactly the facts.

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm not sure that focusing 100% of his time on the issue is going to be able to help salvage what was a botched and ill-conceived mission from the beginning.
    Then he should be spending 100% of his time focusing on getting our people out, ASAP.

    Jesus Christ.

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    That's the thing...I'm NOT an-Obama hater, but he was elected (by me and others) to do a job, and that job wasn't to focus on public appearances.
    Amen. Nor am I. I actually voted for the guy. However, his performance thus far has been disappointing to say the least.

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    Those are exactly the facts.
    President Bush the Elder sent U.S. forces into Somalia in December 1992 to aid the United Nations in relieving a massive famine. In May of 1993, four months into his term, President Clinton declared that mission accomplished and pulled out most of the U.S. forces. In a speech on the South Lawn to associate himself with the effort, he extolled the decision to intervene: "If all of you who served had not gone, it is absolutely certain that tens of thousands would have died by now." It was a "successful mission," he said, and "proved yet again that American leadership can help to mobilize international action ..."

    But back in Somalia, with no U.S. deterrent, Somalia's warlords began fighting again. After a series of bloody attacks on U.N. peacekeepers, Mr. Clinton launched a new mission: In August 1993, he sent in a force of Rangers and Special Forces units to capture the brutal warlord Mohammad Farrah Aidid and restore order.

    That force asked for heavy armor -- in the form of Abrams tanks and Bradley armored vehicles -- as well as the AC-130 gunship, but the Clinton Administration denied those requests. On October 3 on a mission to pick up Aidid, two Black Hawks were unexpectedly shot down; in the ensuing urban gun battle, 18 American soldiers were killed and another 73 injured.


    Many military experts believe that if the U.S. forces had had armor, fewer would have died. Secretary of Defense Les Aspin resigned two months after Somalia, having acknowledged that his decision on the armor had been an error. A 1994 Senate Armed Services Committee investigation reached the same conclusion. But perhaps the most poignant statement came from retired Lieutenant Colonel Larry Joyce, father of Sergeant Casey Joyce, a Ranger killed in Mogadishu: "Had there been armor ... I contend that my son would probably be alive today ..."

    Mr. Clinton's responsibility in Somalia doesn't stop there. Despite the mistakes that October day, Aidid had been struck a blow. The U.S. military, with 18 dead, wanted nothing more than to finish what it had started. Mr. Clinton instead aborted the mission. The U.S. released the criminals it had captured that same day at such great cost, and the U.N., lacking U.S. support, was powerless to keep order. Somalia remains a lawless, impoverished nation. Worse, the terrorists of al Qaeda interpreted the U.S. retreat from Somalia as a sign of American weakness that may have convinced them we could be induced to retreat from the Middle East if they took their attacks to the U.S. homeland.
    Wall Street Journal, August 6, 2002

    But this thread isn't about Somalia. However, I'd be happy to pursue this subject with you on the military board, if you'd like.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 10-12-09 at 11:34 AM.

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Then he should be spending 100% of his time focusing on getting our people out, ASAP.

    Jesus Christ.
    Do you really believe that it is that simple?

    Perhaps the answer isn't a complete pullout or amplifying the effort.

    I don't know what the answer is...that's the problem when you are left to clean up somebody elses mess.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So how long does he need? How long are you willing to let troops sit in hostile terrirtory while you CiC "decides" ?
    The Iraq War began in March of 2003. It wasn't until January of 2007 that a coherent campaign plan was formulated by the Bush administration. So if Obama is anything like Bush, the answer to your question is just under four years.

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    don't know what the answer is...that's the problem when you are left to clean up somebody elses mess.
    Quit acting like he's a victim. He volunteered FOR THIS JOB, knowing he would be cleaning up a mess. He has failed to do his job, to date, while thousands of U.S. service personnel anticipate yet another holiday spent away from their families, being shot at. Maybe you would feel more strongly about this, as I do, if you had a personal investment in this issue.

    While our guys and gals are being shot at, waiting for Obama to decide what their job is, he's busy, appearing on Letterman.

    Feel free to defend that, but it will make you look like an imbecile.

    My boyfriend spent a year in Tikrit. He won't be mobilized for another 4 years to go back, but his friends and their families are being directly impacted by Obama's indecision. We both voted for Obama, and we are both EQUALLY unhappy with his inaction on this issue.

    If you think that this is a bunch of nothing criticisms by Obama foes, you're sadly mistaken. These are people who took a chance and voted for Obama and are now afraid of what they've purchased for the next 4 years.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 10-12-09 at 11:38 AM.

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Quit acting like he's a victim. He volunteered FOR THIS JOB, knowing he would be cleaning up a mess. He has failed to do his job, to date, while thousands of U.S. service personnel anticipate yet another holiday spent away from their families, being shot at.

    While our guys and gals are being shot at, waiting for Obama to decide what their job is, he's appearing on letterman.

    Feel free to defend that, but it will make you look like an imbecile.
    I'm not claiming he is a victim....I'm just not going to expect him to solve a decade old problem overnight. Sorry.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm just not going to expect him to solve a decade old problem overnight. Sorry.
    9 months isn't OVERNIGHT.

    Is there anything he could do that you might criticize? Just hoping for some objectivity here.

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