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Thread: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    If you want to draw from the U.S. Constitution to make an argument which invalidates mine, feel free to do so. That would be pretty consistent with the spirit of this website, seeing as how it is a debate forum.



    So you think we need a military dictatorship in order for Obama to get his head out of his ass and make a decision on afghanistan?


    I don't think I actually "need" to do anything here.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post


    just....wow.
    I have a suspicion of what he means, but I'm not going to waste my time guessing after it. He can elucidate his own points and make his own arguments. However, if it is what I think, I already have a response.

    So you think we need a military dictatorship in order for Obama to get his head out of his ass and make a decision on afghanistan?
    My point wasn't about Afghanistan so much as your attitude toward the described process in general, since you express frustration over any incident comparable to it. In the case of Afghanistan, Obama can make any number of decisions, from immediate to withdrawal to signing the orders for the 40,000 troop deployment. Either way, he is going to piss off a number of other politicians (even in his own party -- you can always count on the Republicans to be against him) and the American people -- which is certainly going to compromise some of his future projects. The reason is because every politician has their own "plan" for themselves and their constituents, and if Obama acts contrary to anyone's plan, then they are going to retaliate by making light of his -- if only because they need to send the message that they (or rather, the little club(s) of politicians they are working in on any issue, be it energy or finances) are not people Obama wants to make light of. They will need to emphasize that they are necessary and need to have their interests respected. Of course, this will happen at the expense of other people. End result is, any potential decision Obama makes is going to have some kind of political repercussion that could comprise any one of his future endeavors, if not all of them. This is the problem with factionalism that the Founding Fathers were always agonizing about.

    Person A wants i
    Person B wants i2
    Person A doesn't need Person B to get i or i2
    Person B wants person A to get i2 instead of i
    Person A gets i
    Person B gets pissed
    Later, person A wants n, but needs help
    Person B can help Person A get n, but has insufficient personal interest
    Peron A begs B to help him
    Person B cites the i/i2 affair

    In short, factionalism makes unrelated things related and reduces efficiency.

    And in answer to your question, yes: if Obama had the powers of military dictator, he wouldn't have to worry about how his military decisions relate to everything else he is doing. He can't just kill, imprison, or exile any person who get in his way.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-12-09 at 01:18 PM.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I have a suspicion of what he means, but I'm not going to waste my time guessing after it. He can elucidate his own points and make his own arguments. However, if it is what I think, I already have a response.
    Are you under the mistaken impression that you are contributing meaningfully to this thread?

  4. #114
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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    If we had the appropriate CAS as requested by those on the ground, there would be less dead US soldiers, not more in Somalia.
    I'm not sure CAS would have been totally appropriate; considering the tactical situation. You are referring to the events of 3-4 OCT, 1993, correct?

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    I'm not sure CAS would have been totally appropriate; considering the tactical situation. You are referring to the events of 3-4 OCT, 1993, correct?



    Yes, I am. CAS and other support assets were indicated and needed in the Battle of Mogudishu. Clintion did not want to spend the political capital on it.
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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Are you under the mistaken impression that you are contributing meaningfully to this thread?
    If you have to ask that question, you probably aren't yourself. Our meaningfulness or lack thereof speaks for itself.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-12-09 at 01:16 PM.
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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Yes, I am. CAS and other support assets were indicated and needed in the Battle of Mogudishu. Clintion did not want to spend the political capital on it.
    Not sure CAS would have been a viable option, considering METT-TC...now those tanks/APCs and Brads that were denied, those were desperately needed.

    The TF did use CCA from 160th, which was far more appropriate than CAS would have been (at least in a TIC situation), outside from surgical strike capability.

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Not sure CAS would have been a viable option, considering METT-TC...now those tanks/APCs and Brads that were denied, those were desperately needed.

    The TF did use CCA from 160th, which was far more appropriate than CAS would have been (at least in a TIC situation), outside from surgical strike capability.




    I think a spectre would have made things a little bit easier thier. Then again, sounds like I was USAF, and you? Army?
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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I think a spectre would have made things a little bit easier thier. Then again, sounds like I was USAF, and you? Army?
    I was in the Army and I think a spectre gunship would have been what the doctor ordered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Support Grows to End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I think a spectre would have made things a little bit easier thier. Then again, sounds like I was USAF, and you? Army?
    Roger...and a Forward Observer. Spectre is a beast! If they could have utilized it in an AO that they knew had no civilians, then it would have been appropriate. Plus, you can only use it at night. I prefer CCA myself.

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