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Thread: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Sure,

    The moment the White House doesn't need the support of the military, President Obama will tackle its traditions. Worked out great for President Clinton.


    The irony here is that gays in the military were left relatively alone until Clinton's "Don't Ask Don't Tell." It gave gays a way out of the military and forced the military to have to deal with obvious offenders.
    Gy, this post is beneath you. You usually express a well thought out position in your posts that I respect even when I disagree with you. This however is just silly.

    Obama got what, about 1/3 of the military vote. It's not like he needs military support for anything. It won't help him carry a single state in 2012. Any military officer who tries to buck him politically will find their career at an end, and rightly so. Any who cannot follow the orders of him as CiC will similarly find their career over. "The military" is not why this is not done yet.

    Further, the idea that Obama should "need the military" is shows a very poor way of thinking. The military serves the country, and needs to do as it is ordered, in the best way it can, and not play politics with anything. You do not have to like it, but that is how it is. I did not like everything I had to do when I served either, but that was not an excuse to do as I please.

    The military opposed racial integration, but it was time, and it needed to be done, and it was done, and the military today is better for it. This will be much less disruptive to the military than racial integration is, and it is time, and it needs to be done. A few people who cannot adjust to the way of the world will be pissed, but most will just get on with their jobs.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Gy, this post is beneath you. You usually express a well thought out position in your posts that I respect even when I disagree with you. This however is just silly.

    Obama got what, about 1/3 of the military vote. It's not like he needs military support for anything. It won't help him carry a single state in 2012. Any military officer who tries to buck him politically will find their career at an end, and rightly so. Any who cannot follow the orders of him as CiC will similarly find their career over. "The military" is not why this is not done yet.

    Further, the idea that Obama should "need the military" is shows a very poor way of thinking. The military serves the country, and needs to do as it is ordered, in the best way it can, and not play politics with anything. You do not have to like it, but that is how it is. I did not like everything I had to do when I served either, but that was not an excuse to do as I please.

    The military opposed racial integration, but it was time, and it needed to be done, and it was done, and the military today is better for it. This will be much less disruptive to the military than racial integration is, and it is time, and it needs to be done. A few people who cannot adjust to the way of the world will be pissed, but most will just get on with their jobs.
    You don't have a clue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You don't have a clue.
    Says the guy who thinks that congress cannot change the UCMJ and that you can be guilty of sexual harassment for opening a door, and that there are regulations against shipboard romance.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Says the guy who thinks that congress cannot change the UCMJ and that you can be guilty of sexual harassment for opening a door, and that there are regulations against shipboard romance.
    All true. Can't expect an E-3 to know all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, let's get something cleared up: female soldiers don't go on patrol with combat units. Do they see combat on un-conventional battlefields? Sure they do.
    Thank you.

    But what the hell are you talking about? When a female medic is at an FOB, who is she with? A combat unit. When they all go out on patrol who is she patrolling with? A combat unit.


    It's been my experience that co-ed units see more discipline problems than all male units, because of males and females working in close proximety. Have you seen something different, or are you just talking?
    In my experience co-ed units are less likely to tear up the bar when they have females around - the need to impress with calm maturity you see.


    Morale can and will break down if you tell soldiers that they no longer have rights.
    What rights?




    The standards in the military are higher than those applied to civilians, actually. It's the reason that it's so easy for a soldier to be discplined for sexual harrassment.
    Exactly, so apply these higher standards of conduct and enforce them - simple.
    In the end this argument is over in any case, both morally and effectively thanks to the British enforcement of anti-discrimination practices regarding gays. If the British are doing it, it wont be long before the worlds biggest and most modern army, the US armed forces is doing it also.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Those links show how sexual harrassment regulations have been abused in the military? I opened them and they didn't appear to support such claims.
    Well then maybe what you claimed was flat out wrong?

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    All true. Can't expect an E-3 to know all that.
    Not all true, and I'm an E-6.

    The fact that Congress can change the UCMJ has been explained to you in earlier parts of this thread. No need to

    If a person is actually punished for a charge of sexual harassment for just opening a door and saying "I'm gay" (assuming DADT were removed), then I would hope that the person charged with SH actually files as many grievances against the command as possible. I however, doubt that most commands would allow this to get up to NJP anyway. The EO can advise the CO on what would actually constitute blatant sexual harassment, and what can be considered something that should be handled at the lowest level possible. So unless there is more to the story or the EO and CO are both paranoid, incompetent, or ignorant, then they would probably just have more sexual harassment/red-yellow-green light training. I learned a lot from my experience that I posted earlier.

    And as for shipboard relations, you can't show public displays of affection on ship or while in public on base, but, with the exception of schools, you are allowed to have members of the opposite sex in barracks rooms. And you can have a romantic relationship with one of your shipmates as long as you are not violating fraternization regulations and it is in private off the ship. I've seen several cases where couples from the ship got married. The chain of command simply transfers one of them to another command, generally in the same area.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Gays have served in every branch of the military for years. I linked to a report that estimates over 1 million gay veterans, with them going back to Korea.





    Even the Navy?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Even the Navy?
    You sir, are a smartass. When Clinton was elected, since he had promised to allow gays in the military, a poster was made that made the rounds in the navy, a silhouette of 2 male soldiers walking hand in hand into the sunset, with the caption "The Navy, it's not just a job, it's a date".
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Thank you.

    But what the hell are you talking about? When a female medic is at an FOB, who is she with? A combat unit. When they all go out on patrol who is she patrolling with? A combat unit.
    As a general rule, women don't go on combat patrols, with combat arms units.




    In my experience co-ed units are less likely to tear up the bar when they have females around - the need to impress with calm maturity you see.
    I haven't seen any pattern to suggest that.




    What rights?
    Soldiers, per the UCMJ, have the right to file grievances.






    Exactly, so apply these higher standards of conduct and enforce them - simple.
    In the end this argument is over in any case, both morally and effectively thanks to the British enforcement of anti-discrimination practices regarding gays. If the British are doing it, it wont be long before the worlds biggest and most modern army, the US armed forces is doing it also.

    This ain't Britain. Besides, 99% of female soldiers in the British army say they experienced some form of sexual harassment. Is that really the standard we want to meet?

    Sexual harassment rife in armed forces | UK news | The Guardian
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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