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Thread: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That wasn't my experience in the service. But, then I was in the infantry and that's a totally different world from the other branches of arms.

    All it's going to take, is one person to file a grievance and it's going to snowball from there.
    The US has lived with women in the front line for years now and got along just fine.



    Why is always assumed that I mean gay soldiers when I say that sexual harrassment will increase. Straight soldiers can sexually harrass gay soldiers. Straight soldiers get into trouble all the time for sexual harrassment. They're all human and subject to the same mistakes.
    Then apply and expect discipline.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    The US has lived with women in the front line for years now and got along just fine.
    Well, actually, the US military hasn't lived with women on the front lines, becaus women aren't allowed to serve in combat arms units and in the units where women are allowed to serve, it hasn't been alright.





    Then apply and expect discipline.

    That's what happens, but in certain circumstances, discpline breaks down. Soldiers are humans, too. You can only go so far, before morale breaks down. Unit morale is far more important than politically correct social experiments. That breakdown occurs when you throw a soldier's rights out the window and tell them tuff ****.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's what happens, but in certain circumstances, discpline breaks down. Soldiers are humans, too. You can only go so far, before morale breaks down. Unit morale is far more important than politically correct social experiments. That breakdown occurs when you throw a soldier's rights out the window and tell them tuff ****.
    Only heterosexual soldiers have rights?

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, actually, the US military hasn't lived with women on the front lines, becaus women aren't allowed to serve in combat arms units and in the units where women are allowed to serve, it hasn't been alright.
    This denies the modern reality where women often spend their time in FOBs or on patrol with infantry or artillery or armed convoy for most of their tours. Not to mention the amount of women pilots the US now has.

    This situation has been a boost to the US military rather than a problem.







    That's what happens, but in certain circumstances, discpline breaks down. Soldiers are humans, too. You can only go so far, before morale breaks down. Unit morale is far more important than politically correct social experiments. That breakdown occurs when you throw a soldier's rights out the window and tell them tuff ****.
    Morale actually doesnt break down much, thats just a scare story. It certainly doesnt break down because of the presence of gays or women but for lots of other reasons.

    Theres no reason that the US cant demand the same standards of its soldiers that it applies to its own normal life.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Only heterosexual soldiers have rights?
    Not just heterosexual soldiers, but hetero soldiers do still have rights and you can't just flush them down the toilet because you want to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    From my vantage point on active duty, I'd say the current climate would be more accepting to gay soldiers than it used to.

    With that being said, I'm not looking forward to all the new EO and POSH classes I'll have to go through if DADT is overturned. Uh, nightmare.

    Ironically, I think your average grunt would rather have a gay man in his foxhole instead of a female. Sexism is still far more prevelant than homophobia, IMO. I know that's the way I feel. I served with a few guys that I am pretty sure were gay. I had no issue with them. I prefer not to have females in my unit, if possible. I would rather have the gay guy.
    Last edited by kansaswhig; 10-12-09 at 01:10 PM.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not just heterosexual soldiers, but hetero soldiers do still have rights and you can't just flush them down the toilet because you want to.
    So homosexual soldiers rights are secondary?

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    This denies the modern reality where women often spend their time in FOBs or on patrol with infantry or artillery or armed convoy for most of their tours. Not to mention the amount of women pilots the US now has.

    This situation has been a boost to the US military rather than a problem.
    Well, let's get something cleared up: female soldiers don't go on patrol with combat units. Do they see combat on un-conventional battlefields? Sure they do. It's been my experience that co-ed units see more discipline problems than all male units, because of males and females working in close proximety. Have you seen something different, or are you just talking?









    Morale actually doesnt break down much, thats just a scare story. It certainly doesnt break down because of the presence of gays or women but for lots of other reasons.
    Morale can and will break down if you tell soldiers that they no longer have rights.

    Theres no reason that the US cant demand the same standards of its soldiers that it applies to its own normal life.

    The standards in the military are higher than those applied to civilians, actually. It's the reason that it's so easy for a soldier to be discplined for sexual harrassment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So homosexual soldiers rights are secondary?
    Another stupid question, I see. Got any input?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Another stupid question, I see. Got any input?
    So then explain how a gay soldiers serving openly stomps on the rights of heterosexual soldiers?

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