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Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

kaya'08

kaya'08

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Turkey and Armenia have signed a historic accord normalising relations after a century of hostility.

The deal was signed by the two foreign ministers after last-minute problems delayed the ceremony in Switzerland.

Under the agreement, Turkey and Armenia are to resume diplomatic ties and reopen their shared border.

The accord has been met by protests in Armenia, where many people say it does not fully address the 1915 killing of hundreds of thousands of Armenians.

Objections

Armenia wants Turkey to recognise the killings as an act of genocide, but successive Turkish governments have refused to do so.

The agreement calls for a joint commission of independent historians to study the genocide issue.
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Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and his Armenian counterpart, Edward Nalbandian, signed the protocols in Switzerland after a delay of more than three hours.

The BBC's Kim Ghattas in Zurich says the Armenians had apparently raised objections to remarks due to be read out by the Turkish delegation.

After the signing neither side issued a statement, and our correspondent says this seems to have been the compromise arranged by US officials.

The Obama administration had been pressing the parties to reach agreement.

The ceremony was attended by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, as well as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and the EU's High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy, Javier Solana.

Read on at:

BBC NEWS | Europe | Armenia and Turkey normalise ties

Good news!
 
Congratz.


.
 
Another case of politicians "reaching accord" out of synch with the feelings of Armenian people...
 
Elena said:
Another case of politicians "reaching accord" out of synch with the feelings of Armenian people...
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It was also Armenia that chose to normalize the ties.
I too believe however that the Armenian genocide should have been recognized by Turkey.
This is pretty much like holocaust denial.
 
Apocalypse said:
It was also Armenia that chose to normalize the ties.
I too believe however that the Armenian genocide should have been recognized by Turkey.
This is pretty much like holocaust denial.
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absolutely correct that the holocaust against the Armenians by Turkey should have been admitted to by Turkey.
 
Turkey, Armenia Agree To Restore Diplomatic Ties : NPR

The NPR site had an interesting report analysis " The agreement calls for a panel to discuss "the historical dimension" of the killing of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians during World War I. The discussion is to include "an impartial scientific examination of the historical records and archives to define existing problems and formulate recommendations."
 
It happened almost 100 years ago. It's nice to see that both countries have finally agreed to move on.
 
The Nagorno-Karabakh issue will still need to be resolved but that involves Azerbaijan who is an ally of Turkey. My guess is that Armenia and Turkey had under the table discussions about Nagorno-Karabakh.
 
F107HyperSabr said:
Should the Jews just forget about the Nazi holocaust and just move on into the 21st century ? Just asking !!
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If Israel and Germany still didn't have diplomatic relations after 60 years, yes. It would be time to move on.
 
Kandahar said:
It happened almost 100 years ago. It's nice to see that both countries have finally agreed to move on.
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Politicians of today agreed, not the people of Armenia; especially since half of their territory is still under Turkish occupation.
 
Kandahar said:
If Israel and Germany still didn't have diplomatic relations after 60 years, yes. It would be time to move on.
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And still, Modern-Germany recognizes the Jewish holocaust, while Modern-Turkey does not recognize the Armenian genocide.
 
Elena said:
Another case of politicians "reaching accord" out of synch with the feelings of Armenian people...
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The genocide happened before Ngorno-Karabakh, wanting to keep the boarders closed because of the denial of the events of 1915 has nothing to do with why they are closed in the first place and it makes no sense to keep the boarders the way they are because of this denial. The boarders where closed by Turkey, remember, not Armenia, in a sign of support for the Azeri's. So using the genocide as an excuse not to open the boarders make no sense; Turkey makes no large gain from the opening of boarders, Armenia does. Turkey is a regional power whereby the Armenian market would only contribute a small part to the overall wealth of Turkey's economy. Regardless if the boarders are open or not, the only difference to Turkey is a minor diplomatic impact, so lobbying for the closure of the boarders is blackmailing no one other than yourselves. It doesnt in anyway undermine or illegitemize the events of 1915. The Genocide can still be pressed for recognition with or without the opened boarders.

F107HyperSabr said:
The Nagorno-Karabakh issue will still need to be resolved but that involves Azerbaijan who is an ally of Turkey. My guess is that Armenia and Turkey had under the table discussions about Nagorno-Karabakh.
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Yes they did, but Azerbaijan wanted the boarders to be opened between the two countries under the condition its ally only does it when the Nagorno Karabkh issue is resolved. Now the boarders will be opening, there is less incentive for Armenia to cooperate and less political leverage for the Azeri's to get the issue resolved. If the parliaments ratify it, Azerbaijan will likely cut off oil supplies to Turkey.

Elena said:
Politicians of today agreed, not the people of Armenia; especially since half of their territory is still under Turkish occupation.
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Armenian territory is under Turkish occupation? Your a real mug, arent you? :2razz:
 
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Also dont forget that the key part of the accord is the establishment of a joint Armenian-Turkey institution that gathers facts and analyzes historical evidence regarding the events of 1915 to reach a conclusion on what really happened. If the conclusion reached works against Turkey, they'll just have to accept it and recognize the events as genocide as agreed on in the accord. Should Turkey turn their backs on this agreement when the time comes, it will have largerly negative diplomatic impacts, so hopefully this wont be the case. It all depends who is the leader at the time. If its a self respecting member of the Republican party Turkey will likely accept reality for what it is, if its a wacked out AKP member with an Islamic agenda, it sort of tops the chances of Turkey not keeping to the accord.
 
kaya'08 said:
The genocide happened before Ngorno-Karabakh, wanting to keep the boarders closed because of the denial of the events of 1915 has nothing to do with why they are closed in the first place and it makes no sense to keep the boarders the way they are because of this denial.
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Not sure I quite understood your thought, but just to clarify, Nagorno-Karabah has nothing to do with the genocide and the occupation of part of Armenia by Turkey...
 
Elena said:
Not sure I quite understood your thought, but just
to clarify, Nagorno-Karabah has nothing to do with the genocide
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Thats my point. The decision is "out of sync" with Armenian people because they believe the opening of boarders will somehow undermine or threaten the legitemacy of the 1915 events...which is false.

and the occupation of part of Armenia by Turkey...
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...the what? Are you high on propaganda?
 
Apocalypse said:
And still, Modern-Germany recognizes the Jewish holocaust, while Modern-Turkey does not recognize the Armenian genocide.
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I don't see why recognition of it needs to be a prerequisite for establishing diplomatic relations. It was almost 100 years ago; Armenia and Turkey need to move on, with or without recognition. No one alive today was responsible for the genocide.
 
kaya'08 said:
...the what? Are you high on propaganda?
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No. Most of Western Armenia including mountain Ararat featured on Armenian coat of arms is still part of Turkey.
 
Elena said:
No. Most of Western Armenia including mountain Ararat featured on Armenian coat of arms is still part of Turkey.
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The areas you talk of are no longer Armenian. Just like the Middle East, Iran, and the Balkans is no longer Turkish. Look on the map. Those boarders which are modern day Armenia is Armenian territory. The boarders which define modern day Turkey is Turkish territory. No land of the Turks belongs to anybody other than the Turks....im sorry your coat of arms is severly outdated. But there is no room for false claims here.
 
kaya'08 said:
The areas you talk of are no longer Armenian.
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Yes, since 1920, few years after genocide. Yet Armenians remember the annexation and I doubt their memory will fade in a hurry...
 
Elena said:
Yes, since 1920, few years after genocide.
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Borders change. There was no moment in history when all geographical boundaries were fair to everyone, so it makes no sense to cite historical borders as a justification for present borders. And the longer ago the grievance occurred, the less sense it makes to try to do so.

Elena said:
Yet Armenians remember the annexation and I doubt their memory will fade in a hurry...
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Actually, they don't remember the annexation. Unless they're really, really, really old.
 
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Kandahar said:
Actually, they don't remember the annexation. Unless they're really, really, really old.
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One of the main characteristics of the mentality of the Caucasus is an exceptional genetically inherited memory on real and perceived injustices. ;)
 
Elena said:
One of the main characteristics of the mentality of the Caucasus is an exceptional genetically inherited memory on real and perceived injustices. ;)
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"genetically inherited memory " ??? Are you serious ? Are you saying that you believ that memory is encoded in the genetic material and transmitted from the prior generation to the next as one would transfer data between to to a computer ?
 
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