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Thread: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Should the Jews just forget about the Nazi holocaust and just move on into the 21st century ? Just asking !!
    If Israel and Germany still didn't have diplomatic relations after 60 years, yes. It would be time to move on.
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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It happened almost 100 years ago. It's nice to see that both countries have finally agreed to move on.
    Politicians of today agreed, not the people of Armenia; especially since half of their territory is still under Turkish occupation.

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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If Israel and Germany still didn't have diplomatic relations after 60 years, yes. It would be time to move on.
    And still, Modern-Germany recognizes the Jewish holocaust, while Modern-Turkey does not recognize the Armenian genocide.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    Another case of politicians "reaching accord" out of synch with the feelings of Armenian people...
    The genocide happened before Ngorno-Karabakh, wanting to keep the boarders closed because of the denial of the events of 1915 has nothing to do with why they are closed in the first place and it makes no sense to keep the boarders the way they are because of this denial. The boarders where closed by Turkey, remember, not Armenia, in a sign of support for the Azeri's. So using the genocide as an excuse not to open the boarders make no sense; Turkey makes no large gain from the opening of boarders, Armenia does. Turkey is a regional power whereby the Armenian market would only contribute a small part to the overall wealth of Turkey's economy. Regardless if the boarders are open or not, the only difference to Turkey is a minor diplomatic impact, so lobbying for the closure of the boarders is blackmailing no one other than yourselves. It doesnt in anyway undermine or illegitemize the events of 1915. The Genocide can still be pressed for recognition with or without the opened boarders.

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    The Nagorno-Karabakh issue will still need to be resolved but that involves Azerbaijan who is an ally of Turkey. My guess is that Armenia and Turkey had under the table discussions about Nagorno-Karabakh.
    Yes they did, but Azerbaijan wanted the boarders to be opened between the two countries under the condition its ally only does it when the Nagorno Karabkh issue is resolved. Now the boarders will be opening, there is less incentive for Armenia to cooperate and less political leverage for the Azeri's to get the issue resolved. If the parliaments ratify it, Azerbaijan will likely cut off oil supplies to Turkey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    Politicians of today agreed, not the people of Armenia; especially since half of their territory is still under Turkish occupation.
    Armenian territory is under Turkish occupation? Your a real mug, arent you?
    Last edited by kaya'08; 10-11-09 at 10:49 AM.
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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Also dont forget that the key part of the accord is the establishment of a joint Armenian-Turkey institution that gathers facts and analyzes historical evidence regarding the events of 1915 to reach a conclusion on what really happened. If the conclusion reached works against Turkey, they'll just have to accept it and recognize the events as genocide as agreed on in the accord. Should Turkey turn their backs on this agreement when the time comes, it will have largerly negative diplomatic impacts, so hopefully this wont be the case. It all depends who is the leader at the time. If its a self respecting member of the Republican party Turkey will likely accept reality for what it is, if its a wacked out AKP member with an Islamic agenda, it sort of tops the chances of Turkey not keeping to the accord.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    The genocide happened before Ngorno-Karabakh, wanting to keep the boarders closed because of the denial of the events of 1915 has nothing to do with why they are closed in the first place and it makes no sense to keep the boarders the way they are because of this denial.
    Not sure I quite understood your thought, but just to clarify, Nagorno-Karabah has nothing to do with the genocide and the occupation of part of Armenia by Turkey...

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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    Not sure I quite understood your thought, but just
    to clarify, Nagorno-Karabah has nothing to do with the genocide
    Thats my point. The decision is "out of sync" with Armenian people because they believe the opening of boarders will somehow undermine or threaten the legitemacy of the 1915 events...which is false.

    and the occupation of part of Armenia by Turkey...
    ...the what? Are you high on propaganda?
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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Wow, maybe the principals should get a Nobel Peace Prize -- oh, wait. . .
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    And still, Modern-Germany recognizes the Jewish holocaust, while Modern-Turkey does not recognize the Armenian genocide.
    I don't see why recognition of it needs to be a prerequisite for establishing diplomatic relations. It was almost 100 years ago; Armenia and Turkey need to move on, with or without recognition. No one alive today was responsible for the genocide.
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    Re: Armenia and Turkey normalise ties!! Historic accord signed

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post

    ...the what? Are you high on propaganda?
    No. Most of Western Armenia including mountain Ararat featured on Armenian coat of arms is still part of Turkey.

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