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Thread: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    [quote=Joe1991;1058297934]So you think everyone that serves in the military is a conservative?[quote]

    Most are.

    And as far as politicians go, they gave Bush everything he wanted.

    The reason these "wars" aren't won, is because there are no armies to defeat.

    Al Quaida, like terrorism, can move from country to country and we need to focus on intelligence, international cooperation, and yes, police work in eliminating it, not invading and nationbuilding.
    There's an enemy to defeat. Just because he doesn't show up on the battlefield in the form of a conventional army, doesn't mean that he can't be defeated. It's that attitude that is the reason these wars aren't over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    [quote=apdst;1058297942]
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    So you think everyone that serves in the military is a conservative?

    Most are.
    I disagree. I've been in for over a decade and I'd say most in the military are oblivious to politics. The ones that are politically savvy lean conservative a bit; there are a lot more troops that vote Democrat than you think. Many of the intellectual class among officers are almost all liberals.

    There's an enemy to defeat. Just because he doesn't show up on the battlefield in the form of a conventional army, doesn't mean that he can't be defeated. It's that attitude that is the reason these wars aren't over.
    First sentence: true. Second sentence: False.

    Iraq took so long because our leaders didn't have a plan until JAN 2007.

    AFG has never really had a plan (at least not a coherent one)...thus there really hasn't been anything to judge "progress" by.

    Military failures in Iraq and AFG are not the fault of dissenting liberals. Get real. The Surge was born out of political dissention to the lack of progress in Iraq. So, actually in that case, we should be thankful...otherwise we might still be "staying the course".

    Is that really what you think? You do not stike me as being that stupid. But you do strike me as being insanely partisan...those lines can blur.
    Last edited by kansaswhig; 10-09-09 at 02:26 PM.

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    [quote=kansaswhig;1058299018]
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    I disagree. I've been in for over a decade and I'd say most in the military are oblivious to politics. The ones that are politically savvy lean conservative a bit; there are a lot more troops that vote Democrat than you think. Many of the intellectual class among officers are almost all liberals.
    Numbers, please, because that hasn't been my observation.



    First sentence: true. Second sentence: False.

    Iraq took so long because our leaders didn't have a plan until JAN 2007.

    AFG has never really had a plan (at least not a coherent one)...thus there really haven't been anything to judge "progress" by.

    Military failures in Iraq and AFG are not the fault of dissenting liberals. Get real. The Surge was born out of political dissention to the lack of progress in Iraq. So, actually in that case, we should be thankful...otherwise we might still be "staying the course".

    Is that really what you think? You do not stike me as being that stupid. But you do strike me as being insanely partisan...those lines can blur.
    I'm not saying that war dissenters are the problem, however they are a part of the problem and not a part of the solution. To suggest that we must thank anti-war Libbos for encouraging the surge is a real joke, indeed.

    The reason for the surge, was GWB finally got his head out of his ass and started paying more attention to the guys in uniform instead of the guys in suits.

    To say that our soldiers are unable to defeat an unconventional army is an insult to everyone that wears the uniform.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    Numbers, please, because that hasn't been my observation.
    I don't take statistics, it's just been my observation over the last decade. Sorry I didn't scientifically poll it before I presented to you, the all powerful OZ.

    I'm still in and you are out. So who would know?


    I'm not saying that war dissenters are the problem
    ,

    THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID:

    It's that attitude that is the reason these wars aren't over.
    To suggest that we must thank anti-war Libbos for encouraging the surge is a real joke, indeed.
    It is not a joke. Anti-war fever was at an all time high when Bush finally decided to get it together. He was getting pressure from members of his own party to do something it got so bad. McCain was calling for a Surge almost a year before they finally did it and some Senators were going to the WH with their own plans. God you make it so hard to debate b/c you just don't know very much about what has gone on in these wars.

    The reason for the surge, was GWB finally got his head out of his ass and started paying more attention to the guys in uniform instead of the guys in suits.
    It wasn't guys in uniform that came up with the Surge. It was a retired General and Fred Kagan. Again...how do you not know that?

    To say that our soldiers are unable to defeat an unconventional army is an insult to everyone that wears the uniform.
    So I'm insulting myself? Please. The old "if you don't agree with me you are unpatriotic" defense is sooooooo pathetic. Nameless, faceless combatants who don't play by the rules are hard to beat. Remember Vietnam?

    If you are so damn gung-ho and jingoistic, then why did you get out? Why don't you volunteer to go back over?
    Last edited by kansaswhig; 10-09-09 at 02:54 PM.

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    This is what happens you're losing a war.

    Bin Laden wants to keep soldiers in Afghanistan as long as humanely possible. He doesn't care about causing casualties to American Civilians that's just American war propaganda Laden is most interested in draining our resources and he's doing a dam good job.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    I don't take statistics, it's just been my observation over the last decade. Sorry I didn't scientifically poll it before I presented to you, the all powerful OZ.

    I'm still in and you are out. So who would know?
    So, we're just supposed to take your word for it? Somehow, I just can't see that happening.


    ,

    THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID:
    Yah, we know what kind of track record you have with repeating others's comments, too.





    It is not a joke. Anti-war fever was at an all time high when Bush finally decided to get it together. He was getting pressure from members of his own party to do something it got so bad. McCain was calling for a Surge almost a year before they finally did it and some Senators were going to the WH with their own plans. God you make it so hard to debate b/c you just don't know very much about what has gone on in these wars.
    It's a joke if you think that the war dissenters are responsible for motivating the surge...LOL!!

    It wasn't guys in uniform that came up with the Surge. It was a retired General and Fred Kagan. Again...how do you not know that?
    So, General Patreaus didn't have **** to do with it? Nothing? The guys in uniform, General Batiste and all them never suggested that we needed more troops on the ground in Iraq?



    So I'm insulting myself? Please. The old "if you don't agree with me you are unpatriotic" defense is sooooooo pathetic. Nameless, faceless combatants who don't play by the rules are hard to beat. Remember Vietnam?
    But, not impossible to beat. We destroyed the Viet Cong in Vietnam. You should already know that.

    If you are so damn gung-ho and jingoistic, then why did you get out? Why don't you volunteer to go back over?

    The, "why don't you go fight", is even worse. I'm forty; I would probably just be in the way. But, hey, the 256th BCT is deploying to Afghanistan in January, so anything's possible.


    So, now I'm a jingoist?... Gotta resort to some sorta attack, somewhere, somehow, huh? Can't help it, can you? Found out that you can't exactly call me a racist, but I pass all the time, so technically, you could. So, now you resort to calling me a jingoist. That's a race neutral accusation...
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    There was a defining moment that signaled exactly what America's will was in reguards to actually winning in Afghanistan and sent a clear message to the Taliban and Al Quaida that our intent was to get out of their way and let them regain strength in the area as they have. It is the soul reason why the situation is as it stands today.

    CNN.com - White House pressed on 'mission accomplished' sign - Oct. 29, 2003

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    Yes Bush taught us all that cutting and running from the battle in Afghanistan was the smartest move he could make. To benfit us all.

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, we're just supposed to take your word for it? Somehow, I just can't see that happening.
    You don't have to. You are very good at making all of your conversations very uncivil...generally a sign that someone knows they are out-witted.


    Yah, we know what kind of track record you have with repeating others's comments, too.
    I don't what this means.


    It's a joke if you think that the war dissenters are responsible for motivating the surge...LOL!!
    They absolutely are. I'm not talking about code pink, genious. I'm talking about prominent dems and some republicans becoming fed up with losing in Iraq. The political pressure on Bush forced him to find another way. Why is this so hard for you to accept? It's completely logical.



    So, General Patreaus didn't have **** to do with it? Nothing? The guys in uniform, General Batiste and all them never suggested that we needed more troops on the ground in Iraq?
    Petraeus (correct spelling) was not in on the planning of the Surge plan presented to Bush. He was commanding CAC at Leavenworth at the time and Gen. Jack Keane and Fred Kagan came up with the plan and had given it to MNC-I commander Odierno prior to Petraeus even taking command of MNF-I. Once Petraeus was put in place, he tweeked tactical elements of the strategy. Batiste? Former commander of 1st ID? No, he had nothing to do with it. In fact, he was in the infamous "gang of Generals" that protested the war after retirement. And who is "all of them"?





    But, not impossible to beat. We destroyed the Viet Cong in Vietnam. You should already know that.
    We lost the war.

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    Re: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
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    You know this pisses me off. The left can take full ownership of this one. There is no way anyone can blame the right for lousy troop morale. Anti-war protesting, calling them nazis, saying they scare women and children in the dark of night, saying the war is lost, comparing their families to little Eichmanns, and voting against funding....no this is the legacy of the left.
    These soldiers say absolutely nothing about anti war protestors or little eichmanns, yet you somehow think it's relevant?

    There's really not a mystery here: they're in an 8 year long war that has been worsening for years now.

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