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Thread: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Easy Target View Post
    If his stops were handled like a DUI checkpoint where every car or every third car was stopped and drivers license, registration and insurance were checked, he would have probable cause to check the immigration status of all who could not provide those documents that are required by state and federal laws.

    Anyone have a problem with this style of check since it is not based on race but on required documents that we all must carry with us when we drive?
    What do you carry with you to prove your citizenship?

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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    actually, isn't that exactly what the Presidents job is?
    Yes, the executive branch is in charge of enforcing the law. Each president's method of enforcement differs slightly, including which laws are the highest priority and which won't be enforced at all.
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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    If his stops were handled like a DUI checkpoint where every car or every third car was stopped and drivers license, registration and insurance were checked, he would have probable cause to check the immigration status of all who could not provide those documents that are required by state and federal laws.

    Anyone have a problem with this style of check since it is not based on race but on required documents that we all must carry with us when we drive?
    That would be unconstitutional. Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz established that sobriety checkpoints do violate the 4th, but allowed them, claiming that public safety from DUI prevention was more important. With no public safety at stake, stopping cars and checking ID without cause would not be legal.

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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    What do you carry with you to prove your citizenship?
    I don't carry anything to prove my citizenship. But I do carry the documents to legally drive in this country. If I were to go through a DUI type checkpoint, (we have them regularly around here) and could not produce those documents, then I could, upon request, provide a valid birth certificate, passport, etc.

    My point was that if you are caught for some other infraction, like driving without license and insurance, then it gives the LEO opening to also check immigration status.
    Last edited by 1 Easy Target; 10-09-09 at 11:47 AM.

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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Are you referring to rathi's story?
    The one from the OP.

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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    That would be unconstitutional. Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz established that sobriety checkpoints do violate the 4th, but allowed them, claiming that public safety from DUI prevention was more important. With no public safety at stake, stopping cars and checking ID without cause would not be legal.
    I don't know. It appears that NYPD and other big city police have been stopping people on the street, sidewalks, etc. and asking for ID, searching their bags, and even patting them down.

    They are getting away with it somehow.

    NEW YORK (AP) - A teenager trying to get into his apartment after school is confronted by police. A man leaving his workplace chooses a different route back home to avoid officers who roam a particular street.

    These and hundreds of thousands of other Americans in big cities have been stopped on the street by police using a law-enforcement practice called stop-and-frisk that alarms civil libertarians but is credited by authorities with helping reduce crime.

    Police in major U.S. cities stop and question more than a million people each year - a sharply higher number than just a few years ago. Most are black and Hispanic men. Many are frisked, and nearly all are innocent of any crime, according to figures gathered by The Associated Press.
    My Way News - Police stop more than 1 million people on street

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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    I don't know. It appears that NYPD and other big city police have been stopping people on the street, sidewalks, etc. and asking for ID, searching their bags, and even patting them down.

    They are getting away with it somehow.
    The article states the officers are claiming "reasonable suspicion" in making the stops (although I would disagree). A sobriety checkpoint doesn't even have reasonable suspicion argument, as it stops everyone regardless of behavior.

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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    Setting up laws that let you target anyone broadens the victims of those who seek police power and plan on abusing it covertly. Human nature triumphs. Some percent will abuse it no matter what obstacles you put up. And that is why dragnets should only be done to catch a mass murderer and random pat downs should be illegal. To catch someone who seeks authority to abuse it is like winning the lottery if they are careful enough. Good luck.
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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    I don't carry anything to prove my citizenship. But I do carry the documents to legally drive in this country. If I were to go through a DUI type checkpoint, (we have them regularly around here) and could not produce those documents, then I could, upon request, provide a valid birth certificate, passport, etc.

    My point was that if you are caught for some other infraction, like driving without license and insurance, then it gives the LEO opening to also check immigration status.
    What exactly is a DUI type checkpoint? Do you have roadblocks where officers stop every car and simply ask for license and registration without cause?

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    Re: DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    What exactly is a DUI type checkpoint? Do you have roadblocks where officers stop every car and simply ask for license and registration without cause?
    The ones I have seen they make every car slowly roll passed them and they peer into the car. They have 1 lane that is open but you aren't allowed to go through it. They leave it open due to legalities but then chase you down if you go through it. (Or at least the ones i used to see in my old town). If you look suspicious. (Or get a racist cop and look the opposite of what they like) You get stopped and harassed.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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