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ElBaradei says nuclear Israel number one threat to Mideast: report

Wrong.
Zionism is the national movement for the establishment of a Jewish homeland.
Since the Jewish homeland was established like, over 61 years ago, today Zionism simply refers to being pro-Israeli.

Claiming that it refers to Israel's "political expansionism" is quite hilarious, seeing that Israel has given away over 33% of its lands from post-Six-Day-War in 1967, till today, something that one cannot associate with expansionism.
Calling it an expansionist is even more laughable than calling Venezuela a Democracy.

Indeed, Israel has withdrawn as its zionist dreams died on the vine after the shock of Yom Kippur and the pressure of post intifada politics.

Ill grant you that zionism's flavour has changed somewhat to an extent but its element has always been to gain as much land as possible from its beginnings - thats what the project was about after all - land.
 
Indeed, Israel has withdrawn as its zionist dreams died on the vine after the shock of Yom Kippur and the pressure of post intifada politics.
The shock of Yom Kippur was more of a militarily strategic shock and not political shock.
It was nonetheless a victory.

And the intifada has simply proven how low can some Palestinians go.

Your talks on Zionism prove once and once again that you do not know what the term means, you probably simply hear it here and then on the media.
Zionism has ended as to what it was, the 'Zionist dream', as you name it, was accomplished in 1948 and since then Zionism simply refers to being pro-Israeli.
Ill grant you that zionism's flavour has changed somewhat to an extent but its element has always been to gain as much land as possible from its beginnings - thats what the project was about after all - land.
Homeland, not land, those two are different and once you understand the difference you may understand how wrong you are in your claims.
This is entirely up to you, though.
 
Oh dry up.

Your random attack on a word used to insult Israelis is lame and uncool.

Please do grow up.
The concept of irony is lost on you. Oh well.


The Arabs use that word in a fashion that is meant to be insulting. That makes it inappropriate and offensive.
That does not make it correct. If people use a word incorrectly and in a derogatory fashion, they are to blame. This does not, however, change the actual definition of the word. I am truly saddened that you are struggling to comprehend such a simple concept.
 
Zionism has ended as to what it was, the 'Zionist dream', as you name it, was accomplished in 1948 and since then Zionism simply refers to being pro-Israeli.

Only if you'd like for it to be a racist term.
Hell, Im pro-israeli, best to them, they are a multi-racial state with Eastern Europeans, Arabs, 'Jews' and others. You cannot seriously say that you can account for what exactly zionism means to everyone. To me it means the philosophy behind the establishment of an Israeli state that is beyond its current borders.
 
The concept of irony is lost on you. Oh well.



That does not make it correct. If people use a word incorrectly and in a derogatory fashion, they are to blame. This does not, however, change the actual definition of the word. I am truly saddened that you are struggling to comprehend such a simple concept.

Says you.

I do not agree.
 
I'm not aware of any acts of terrorism that the present Iranian administration has engaged in, certainly not on the basis of being "Islamic." Conversely, I'm aware that Israel has previously been governed by terrorist figures such as Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir.

I just joined this forum, and this post is so stupid its enough to make me regret coming here.

I believe that you might be the same person using this moniker on several other forum boards across the web.

My suggestion, despite being new, is really stop spewing this garbage and saudi-driven propaganda. It is irritating just to have to see it over and over.
 
You're referring to a misquote of Ahmedinejad mentioning that Israel shall not be recognized even from a cartographic POV as a territory in the middle east.

WRONG. I speak some farsi and there was no misquote.

AN also has called israel a tumor and cancer, and denies the holocaust.

As part russian, I despise this animal for that alone. More russians than jews were murdered in the holocaust.

Israel wages a daily war on palestine and its civilians btw.

Propagandistic nonsense.

You failed to do you research: Hezbollah has not committed an act of terror in decades.

Are you a paid propagandist? The web is loaded with them these days, and as a member of some 15 political forum boards, I keep seeing the game BS, iran has not attacked anyone in like 6,000 years, hezbollah has no connection to iran and are freedom fighters, etc, ad nauseum.

If this forum seeks qualitative discussion, eliminating posters and nonsesne like the posts i am quoting would be the right place to start.
 
You're not disagreeing with me, but instead, disagreeing with the Dictionary and English language. :shrug:

No, I am disagreeing with your rather naive opinion of the sitution that we previously discussed.
 
No, I am disagreeing with your rather naive opinion of the sitution that we previously discussed.

I think the disagreement is over the meaning of the term "zionist".

The word refers to a person who supports self determination for Jewish people in their ancestral homeland. The fact that bigoted things do their utmost to try to twist the meaning of the term into something nasty does not mean that the term is actually nasty -- it only means that these bigots are so motivated by their hatred that they will stop at nothing in order to demonize those they hate.

Rather than gthe word Zionist as something nasty, yourself, and thus validating the bigots campaign of demonization, it would be far better from your point of view to RECLAIM it by reinforcing its actual meaning.
 
The word refers to a person who supports self determination for Jewish people in their ancestral homeland.

Actually, the early political development of Zionism was somewhat detached from the religious components of the term and the association with Mount Zion, particularly since Herzl himself did not promote the prospect of establishment in Palestine in The Jewish State. The association with Palestine was a later development in the political ideology itself.
 
Actually, the early political development of Zionism was somewhat detached from the religious components of the term and the association with Mount Zion, particularly since Herzl himself did not promote the prospect of establishment in Palestine in The Jewish State. The association with Palestine was a later development in the political ideology itself.

I never said anything about religion.

I referred to Jewish people in terms of ethnicity.
 
I never said anything about religion.

I referred to Jewish people in terms of ethnicity.

And Zionism originated as a theologically-based movement associated with the standard religion of the Jewish ethnic group. In that sense, there was interest in revival of a formal Jewish community of one form or another in Palestine, but there was no specific interest in Palestine in Zionism's early political manifestation.
 
And Zionism originated as a theologically-based movement associated with the standard religion of the Jewish ethnic group. In that sense, there was interest in revival of a formal Jewish community of one form or another in Palestine, but there was no specific interest in Palestine in Zionism's early political manifestation.

Ugh, wrong, please stop posting what you clearly know nothing about.
 
I just joined this forum, and this post is so stupid its enough to make me regret coming here.

I believe that you might be the same person using this moniker on several other forum boards across the web.

My suggestion, despite being new, is really stop spewing this garbage and saudi-driven propaganda. It is irritating just to have to see it over and over.

Run along, then. If you're not capable of mustering actual argument, that's bound to be a greater source of irritation than anything I write.

WRONG. I speak some farsi and there was no misquote.

Ah, of course, and we should all trust your superior comprehension without question even when you don't attempt to provide elaboration on your alleged understanding? :2wave:

AN also has called israel a tumor and cancer, and denies the holocaust.

As part russian, I despise this animal for that alone. More russians than jews were murdered in the holocaust.

Is that a fact, or are you instead referring to Slavs that were usually not Russian citizens? Not that I don't regard the invasion of the Soviet Union as an aggressive crime in and of itself, but your post's a bit lacking in accuracy. What's most ironic is that his most recent comments have questioned the specific focus on Jewish deaths and the alleged exclusion of the other victims of World War II, so your claims are more misguided still. :rofl

If this forum seeks qualitative discussion, eliminating posters and nonsesne like the posts i am quoting would be the right place to start.

Sorry, but it's not happening. You'll have to at least pretend to debate me here. I've eviscerated every post you've made on this forum so far, so you already have some work to do. :shrug:
 
I think the disagreement is over the meaning of the term "zionist".

The word refers to a person who supports self determination for Jewish people in their ancestral homeland. The fact that bigoted things do their utmost to try to twist the meaning of the term into something nasty does not mean that the term is actually nasty -- it only means that these bigots are so motivated by their hatred that they will stop at nothing in order to demonize those they hate.

Rather than gthe word Zionist as something nasty, yourself, and thus validating the bigots campaign of demonization, it would be far better from your point of view to RECLAIM it by reinforcing its actual meaning.

An awesome point, Gardener.

I still firmly believe that some arabs use the term "Zionist" as a negative degrading term.

Indeed, at one time, it was a harmless reference to Israeli Jews living in their ancestral homeland. When used by a non-hater, this is indeed what it means.
 
Run along, then. If you're not capable of mustering actual argument, that's bound to be a greater source of irritation than anything I write.

You had no respect on the other forum, and you think you can come here and spew the same crud with a get-out-of-jail card. Forget it, honey.

Ah, of course, and we should all trust your superior comprehension without question even when you don't attempt to provide elaboration on your alleged understanding?

The iri FM never attempted to clarify his statements, and WTF is AN to comment on the holocaust? What is it iran's business? Iran has nothing to do with it, and only fools and morons cannot see through his racist tripe.

Is that a fact, or are you instead referring to Slavs that were usually not Russian citizens?

Go read up on the second world war. There were thousands of russian POWs murdered in concenttration camps...duh :doh

Not that I don't regard the invasion of the Soviet Union as an aggressive crime in and of itself, but your post's a bit lacking in accuracy.

Own a mirror?

What's most ironic is that his most recent comments have questioned the specific focus on Jewish deaths and the alleged exclusion of the other victims of World War II, so your claims are more misguided still.

Again, WTF is he to comment on the holocaust? Perhaps Castro should start press conferences discussing his expertise and wisdom on the Congo slaughters.

Sorry, but it's not happening. You'll have to at least pretend to debate me here. I've eviscerated every post you've made on this forum so far, so you already have some work to do.

Typical internet teen boasting "i've beaten you up in every post and your friends in their posts and uncles too." Spare us the infantile nonsense, you left other forums with your tail between your legs, and eventually the same result will occur here as well. Just a matter of time...
 
An awesome point, Gardener.

I still firmly believe that some arabs use the term "Zionist" as a negative degrading term.

Indeed, at one time, it was a harmless reference to Israeli Jews living in their ancestral homeland. When used by a non-hater, this is indeed what it means.

Yes, the racists seem to have no issues with 22 arab muslim nations built on koranic theocratic laws, exclusing jews and christians from voting, working, owning land, etc. - BUT - heaven forbid a jew or other minority should ever want sovereignty, and whoa, we just cannot have that, its "racist."
 
You had no respect on the other forum, and you think you can come here and spew the same crud with a get-out-of-jail card. Forget it, honey.

There's absolutely no argument contained in your post, so I didn't see fit to waste time or space by quoting the whole thing. Maybe you want to make a second attempt there, sparky? ;)
 
An awesome point, Gardener.

I still firmly believe that some arabs use the term "Zionist" as a negative degrading term.

Indeed, at one time, it was a harmless reference to Israeli Jews living in their ancestral homeland. When used by a non-hater, this is indeed what it means.
So I'm a "hater," then? Interesting that you argued with me so vehemently, but when Gardener restates what I've bee saying, it is suddenly an awesome point.
 
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