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Thread: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Are the Ossetinas that stupid? Do they not see what the barbaric animals the Russians have done to the Chechens ?

    Perhaps Ossetians don't read enough of Western propaganda, and by living in or with Russia one can not see what "barbaric animals" Russians are.

    Why don't you go to Chechnya and tell them how much they want to be "independent" (just don't forget to film their reaction )?

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Well there are 8- 10 million of my ancestors who were murdered through famine by the Russian bastards who take murder seriously.

    .
    Wah! Aren't we of "ukrainian" descent?

    Care to set up a thread on Ukraine so I can demonstrate to you what Ukrainians who actually LIVE there think of Ukrainian diaspora as well as Ukraine and what they think of Russia? You might be a bit surprised.

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    I realize that that is speculation but based on my knowledge, history and understanding of the area that is is good theory.
    And since your "knowledge" of their history is as foggy as your knowledge of "Ukrainian" history you may safely bin your "theory".

    Ossetians are descendants of ancient Alans, Scythian and Sarmats. Their language is of Iranian group. They inhabited their lands from, well, the times of ancient Alans, really... There was time in history when Osetians dominated Iberia, one of Georgian states... In the middle of the 6-th century Byzantine Emperor put an Osetian in charge of Ksany, another Georgian province... At the time Georgian territories were controlled by Byzantia, Persia and Arabs.

    Georgia as an independent all in one state was formed in the 11 cen. and flourished between 12 and 13 cen.-s.
    In 13 cen. Georgian kingdom was divided onto few independent Georgian kingdoms that suffered from Tatar-Mongols. The start of major animosities between Georgians and Osetians dates back to 13 century.

    Both Osetia and Georgian kingdoms suffered greatly from the wars with Iran, Turkey and other Caucasian nations. On few occasions Russia sent its army to help Georgians and Osetians.

    In 1782 Georgian ruling class issued a decree discriminating Osetian people and prohibiting marriages between Georgians and Osetians.

    In the 18 cen. Osetian ruling elite appealed to the Russian Empress to admit Osetia into Russian Empire. Their plea was granted.

    In 1782 Georgian (Kartlo-Kahetian, since Georgia at the time consisted of few kingdoms) king asked Russia for protection (Georgievsky pact).
    In 1795 Persian Shah Aga Khan Mohammed, dissatisfied that Irakly II failed to appear at his coronation and so expressed its independence, summed troops to Tbilisi. They rounded up civilian (80 000) and slaughtered them. In Tbilisi an image of Virgin Mary was brought to the bridge over the Kourou, where more than three thousand men were gathered and told to undress. Shah then ordered everyone to come to St. Mary and desecrate her image. Those who refused were beheaded and thrown into the river. Georgians who tried to flee Georgia were caught and massacred. Many Georgians loyal to Shah took part in the massacres. Georgian king Irakley wrote letters to Catherine II begging her to save Georgia. Three detachments of Russian troops (militia generals Burnasheva, Gudovicha, Suhotneva), located in the Caucasus, and an Ossetian detachment of 500 soldiers came to the aid of Georgia. In Petersburg, it was decided to urgently equip the ten thousandth army and send it to Tiflis. Mohammed Aga Khan retreated...
    In 1797 Mohammed Aga Khan once again went on Tiflisu. Only his death saved the city.

    In 1801 Russia fulfilled the request of Georgian king George XII and took Georgia into Russian Empire.

    Since then both Osetia and Georgian provinces were pretty much run by their own ruling elites.

    After the revolution, Georgian provinces were put together to form a republic of Georgia. In 1922 Osetia was divided (by Stalin) into two parts: N.Osetia was left in Russia, and S.Osetia was given to Georgia.

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So you agree that if one country "provokes" a war, another country reacts by starting the violence, and the first country responds with superior force, conquering the second country's territory, the first country should get to keep that territory and is less responsible for the conflict?
    I think I need a flowchart to analyze that hypothetical.
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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yea. Man I remember the crap fest that came about on these boards, with right wingers defending Georgian aggression... tsk tsk.
    S. Ossettia is recognized by the entire international community including the Russian Federation as Georgian territory. Having Russian troops on Georgian territory without Georgian permission is an act of war. Does the U.S. have the right to go to war with Iran because they won't grant Kurdish independence?

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    S. Ossettia is recognized by the entire international community including the Russian Federation as Georgian territory. Having Russian troops on Georgian territory without Georgian permission is an act of war. Does the U.S. have the right to go to war with Iran because they won't grant Kurdish independence?
    Few things to remember:

    1. Mongolia lived for 25 years prior to recognition by "international community" (whatever the hell it is). S.Ossetia as well as Abkhasia were NEVER part of Georgia; they were part of Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic, but that became history at the start of the 90-s.

    2. Russian troops in S.Ossetia were part of a peacekeeping mission in which Georgia also participated.

    3. When Georgia attacked, it killed Russian peacekeepers.

    4. Some 90% of S.Ossetians at the start of the war were Russian citizens.

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    Wah! Aren't we of "ukrainian" descent?

    Care to set up a thread on Ukraine so I can demonstrate to you what Ukrainians who actually LIVE there think of Ukrainian diaspora as well as Ukraine and what they think of Russia? You might be a bit surprised.
    The Russified and Communized Eastern Ukrainian do have a warped and false understanding of the diaspora. Yet they have rights now days and they have the right to be wrong and some of them are good at being wrong.

    I am well aware of what the various parts of Ukraine have for oppinions.

    There is also about 16 - 17 % ethnic Russian minority in Ukraine so of course they are anti-Ukrainian and anti-West.

    I have familiy in all parts of the country so I have an excellent pulse on what they think.

    It varies from the intelligent thinking in the Western part of the country to the thinking of the fifth column Russian and traitors.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    You are aware that south ossetians have had sepratist tendancies since before the first south ossetia war in the early 90s arent you?
    Absolutely !! That area has had the ethnic hatreds and aspiration surpressed during the Soviet times. That surpression did nothing more than put an artificial lid on the violence and built a volcano that started to errupt after the EVIL Empire fell apart.

    We all know the The Armenians and the Azizs had fights and there are pockets of each in the others territory.

    There is hope that maybe Tatarshchina will errupt. Probably not but we can hope that unrest can come there also.

    I pretty much have given up hope on the Kuban and the Don Cossack lands. That area has been too passive.

    It would be good in unrest would spill over from Afghanistan or China into the Muslim areas of Russia.

    The sad part is that Russia has pretty much killed off the quest for freedom of most minorities and many have "merged" into the Russian culture and processes.

    Let us not forget that Russia has been killing off ethnic oppostion since the days of the Czars so except for the Muslim areas of Russia there is little live left for the fight for freedom.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    I am well aware of what the various parts of Ukraine have for oppinions.

    .
    Why don't we continue there: http://www.debatepolitics.com/intern...ti-semite.html

    I'm afraid you are not that well aware of what Ukraine is...

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    Re: Georgia started war with Russia, but Moscow over-reacted, says EU report

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    And since your "knowledge" of their history is as foggy as your knowledge of "Ukrainian" history you may safely bin your "theory".

    Ossetians are descendants of ancient Alans, Scythian and Sarmats. Their language is of Iranian group. They inhabited their lands from, well, the times of ancient Alans, really... There was time in history when Osetians dominated Iberia, one of Georgian states... In the middle of the 6-th century Byzantine Emperor put an Osetian in charge of Ksany, another Georgian province... At the time Georgian territories were controlled by Byzantia, Persia and Arabs.

    Georgia as an independent all in one state was formed in the 11 cen. and flourished between 12 and 13 cen.-s.
    In 13 cen. Georgian kingdom was divided onto few independent Georgian kingdoms that suffered from Tatar-Mongols. The start of major animosities between Georgians and Osetians dates back to 13 century.

    Both Osetia and Georgian kingdoms suffered greatly from the wars with Iran, Turkey and other Caucasian nations. On few occasions Russia sent its army to help Georgians and Osetians.

    In 1782 Georgian ruling class issued a decree discriminating Osetian people and prohibiting marriages between Georgians and Osetians.

    In the 18 cen. Osetian ruling elite appealed to the Russian Empress to admit Osetia into Russian Empire. Their plea was granted.

    In 1782 Georgian (Kartlo-Kahetian, since Georgia at the time consisted of few kingdoms) king asked Russia for protection (Georgievsky pact).
    In 1795 Persian Shah Aga Khan Mohammed, dissatisfied that Irakly II failed to appear at his coronation and so expressed its independence, summed troops to Tbilisi. They rounded up civilian (80 000) and slaughtered them. In Tbilisi an image of Virgin Mary was brought to the bridge over the Kourou, where more than three thousand men were gathered and told to undress. Shah then ordered everyone to come to St. Mary and desecrate her image. Those who refused were beheaded and thrown into the river. Georgians who tried to flee Georgia were caught and massacred. Many Georgians loyal to Shah took part in the massacres. Georgian king Irakley wrote letters to Catherine II begging her to save Georgia. Three detachments of Russian troops (militia generals Burnasheva, Gudovicha, Suhotneva), located in the Caucasus, and an Ossetian detachment of 500 soldiers came to the aid of Georgia. In Petersburg, it was decided to urgently equip the ten thousandth army and send it to Tiflis. Mohammed Aga Khan retreated...
    In 1797 Mohammed Aga Khan once again went on Tiflisu. Only his death saved the city.

    In 1801 Russia fulfilled the request of Georgian king George XII and took Georgia into Russian Empire.

    Since then both Osetia and Georgian provinces were pretty much run by their own ruling elites.

    After the revolution, Georgian provinces were put together to form a republic of Georgia. In 1922 Osetia was divided (by Stalin) into two parts: N.Osetia was left in Russia, and S.Osetia was given to Georgia.
    My knowledge of Ukrainian history is excellent since I was born and grew up in the West I was not poisoned by the lies of Soviet "education".
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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