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Guns allowed in Arizona bars starting Wednesday

lol.....and how exactly will the bartender be able to determine a person is carrying?

this is such a stupid idea.

They can't. That's the purpose of conceal carry. If people drink while carrying it's not the bartender who is in trouble, it's the individual breaking the law.
 
let's see......no guns in bars? we could start there. no guns at gov't functions? that's a good one as well. no guns in schools? i like that.




Why do you like "no Guns in Schools"? How well did that work out at VT or Columbine?
 
Probable cause is still required. Though one can always be "Terry frisked" drunk or not.

The probable cause is that think they are drunk and concealed carrying. All an officer has to do is say that and they can search anyone.
 
They can't. That's the purpose of conceal carry. If people drink while carrying it's not the bartender who is in trouble, it's the individual breaking the law.

It is the bartenders responsibility to determine if a person is of age to drink why would this be any different?
 
i just received an e-mail with this title:

Liberty Alert: Administration wants to take your guns!contained in the e-mail were these words:



i do not understand the big deal here. i'm not anti gun, just sensible about regulations.

There is no "sensible regulation" of a right.
 
Because those with concealed weapons aren't allowed to drink alcohol.
Which is the responsibility of the patron.

Now, if the bartender finds out the patron is drinking while carrying, it is his presponsibiliy to act accordingly.

Given that CCW holders have a pretty good record of obeying the laws regarding their CCW license, why does anything think this will be an issue?
 
The probable cause is that think they are drunk and concealed carrying. All an officer has to do is say that and they can search anyone.




no they need to "articulate" thier "Reasonable suspicion" to show "probable Cause"....


Why don't they use this excuse to search peoples cars? Cause they can't unless they can articulate thier Reasonable suspicion to show probable cause.
 
It is the bartenders responsibility to determine if a person is of age to drink why would this be any different?

You have an ID for the age thing which makes it easy. They check that. If someone has a very realistic fake ID and looks the part (could be 21, has ID that can't be seen as fake by bouncer/bartender) is the bartender in trouble? You can ask people if they are carrying if you're allowing them on your property. But you're not going to search them, and a concealed weapon is....concealed.
 
I dunna know slander and libel seem to sensible regulations to free speech IMHO.

Those aren't regulations, those are punishments for infringing upon the rights of others.
 
you're right, it was a knee jerk response. how will a bartender be able to determine who is carrying? alcohol and guns surely don't mix. is that a more studied response?
Where did this nonsense that we can, somehow, pre-empt crime by assuming that everyone will commit a crime come from?
 
Alcohol and guns is not a very happy combination.

I suppose it would be fine if the Bartender can search those he suspects is drinking and carrying
 
Why don't they use this excuse to search peoples cars?

Drug dogs. Those are clearly an illegal search. DUI check points are another illegal search. While I understand what you are saying, I think the cops will always find a way around rules and restrictions.
 
no they need to "articulate" thier "Reasonable suspicion" to show "probable Cause"....


Why don't they use this excuse to search peoples cars? Cause they can't unless they can articulate thier Reasonable suspicion to show probable cause.

If someone is swerving on the road, that is probable cause. If someone is drunk and showing it while they walk, that is probable cause to check and see if they are concealed carrying.
 
i do not understand the big deal here. i'm not anti gun, just sensible about regulations.
Ther is nothing "sensible" about gun laws that do nothing to reduce gun violence and/or violate the constitution.
 
If someone is swerving on the road, that is probable cause. If someone is drunk and showing it while they walk, that is probable cause to check and see if they are concealed carrying.




So good. Then if one is drunk and in possesion of a firearm, in violation of the law. Problem solved. Wats your point?
 
so it's okay to yell fire in a crowded theater?

I really wish people would stop using this. That's not a restriction. I don't need to get a permit to say "fire". Yelling fire in a crowded theater is illegal because it directly leads to a panic in which people can be injured. You are therefore infringing upon their rights. That being illegal is not a restriction on free speech, but rather a demonstration of the one limit to our rights; we may not infringe upon the rights of others.
 
So good. Then if one is drunk and in possesion of a firearm, in violation of the law. Problem solved. Wats your point?

That police can more easily search everyone now, more than they could. Loss of more freedoms over this. That was the point.
 
No it's not.


The patron can't drink. that's the law. A person who went through the proccess of obtaining a CCW, would be hard pressed to risk it for a natty light.

Its not going to be fun for the bar keeper sweeping bodies from the bar and patching up built holes in the walls.

People are barded from driving drunk. but not for having a gun wile drunk grate plain.

Another day for liberty over logic.
 
That police can more easily search everyone now, more than they could. Loss of more freedoms over this. That was the point.

Cops will do whatever they want to do regardless.
 
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