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Thread: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I thought her story was crazy. Then I met her extended family and friends. Her story is not unique. It's common. There are illegals who have been here since they were 2 years old. They have siblings that are legal. They remember nothing of Mexico. Should they be tossed back over the fence?

    The issue is far more complex than folks make it out to be.
    You are correct, this is a complex issue compounded by the lack of enforcement by our Federal Government and by State Governments. It doesn't get resolved by giving illegal aliens complete access to our healthcare systems.

    It would become a lot LESS complex if we as a nation held our politicians accountable for the LACK of enforcement that has been going on for decades.

    I agree with you in this respect; it would be unfair and WRONG for any immigration reform act to send back EVERYONE who is here illegally regardless of case. But that can be sorted out through rational efforts for REAL reform and allowing those we have WILLFULLY ignored for decades and opportunity to meet specific requirements and eventually allowing them to become citizens.

    The laws regarding immigrants like you sister-in-law should be simplified allowing for an instantaneous process for permitting citizenship within a year or two of marriage and some minimal classes on the Constititution and minimal English Language courses.

    The reform legislation should include a simplified green card process that permits instantaneous checks via computer for any employer and/or agency and if there is a violation of any visa, it is handled firmly and expediently. Any Social Security numbers that match an expired visa should be immediately brought to the attention of immigration and those people picked up and deported.

    For those who have been in the country and paying their taxes under the noses of our own officials, they should be given a five year process for legal immigration for permanent residency.

    There are a few more reforms that can and should be implemented to make immigration with our Southern neighbors effective, efficient, fair and this will improve relations when there is finally a consistent application of our laws.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    If we threw employers who hired illegal aliens in jail, then we would not be even talking about whether they should use the ER or be included, because the majority of them would be back in the country they came from.
    This would be a bad policy under the current process; however, once the Government makes it easy to verify SS and visa information on line for employers, then yes, if they willfully flaunt our laws they should be thrown in jail or heavily fined.

    Right now, employers are expected to be legally liable for determining whether a SS card has been illegally obtained (they are easy to forge in their current form). In addition, many States, like California, issue drivers licenses and the Democrat controlled legislatures continue arguing FOR providing drivers licenses for illegal aliens.

    It is hard to expect the employer to enforce immigration laws when the State issues them drivers licenses which is one of the forms of ID required to be verified by the employer.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Crazy thought.

    How about using the money to isntead find and deport them, and to further secure the borders to stop people coming in. (Also of course actually enforce current laws on employers)
    Because we won't do it. We are simply NEVER gonna go door to door dividing up these families and sending the illegals back. It's not ever ever going to happen.

    It does seem like it would be a good plan to better secure the border. If the border were better secured it might lessen these scenarios where half the family is legit while half is not. But we seem incapable of even doing this properly. My sister in law's mother paid a coyote $1000 to drive them right across the border. It was apparently very easy. The hardest part was getting together the $1000.

    Since it seems obvious to me that we're never gonna throw them all out of the country and we're completely inept at securing our own border we might as well just quit demonizing them and getting all emotional at the thought of peoples crossing some imaginary line on a map. I'm completely over the border nonsense.
    Last edited by talloulou; 09-28-09 at 04:35 PM.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    It's one of those distracting issues that will get folks all emotionally worked up and heated.

    But rationally and logically folks should realize it's more cost effective to include illegals in the plan rather than trying to exclude them. They will be seen - one way or another. The ER costs more, being uninsured costs more, etc. Inevitably they get care and society picks up the tab AS IT IS RIGHT NOW. We might as well do ourselves a favor and make the tab more cost efficient.
    I'm actually a big fan of low-cost medical and dental treatment facilities, using PA's, modeled on the military's healthcare system, in low income areas, particularly in urban areas. If you spend any time, at all, in an E.R., you'll quickly see that there are a lot of Americans (and others, legal and illegal), whose only access to healthcare is currently in the hospital E.R. where they cannot be denied treatment. And, it's killing us.

    Preventive medicine clinics, based upon a sliding fee scale, is what is needed right now. And hospitals should be allowed to divert non-emergency cases to them and refuse to treat them.

    I've known too many kids who were sitting in school each day and couldn't see the board because they needed glasses, and couldn't pay attention in class because they had rotten teeth and no way to repair them.

    It would actually be cheaper in the long run to do it this way than the backward ass way we currently handle the problem of uninsured Americans.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Because we won't do it. We are simply NEVER gonna go door to door dividing up these families and sending the illegals back. It's not ever ever going to happen.

    It does seem like it would be a good plan to better secure the border. If the border were better secured it might lessen these scenarios where half the family is legit while half is not. But we seem incapable of even doing this properly. My sister in law's mother paid a coyote $1000 to drive them right across the border. It was apparently very easy. The hardest part was getting together the $1000.

    Since it seems obvious to me that we're never gonna throw them all out of the country and we're completely inept at securing our own border we might as well just quit demonizing them and getting all emotional at the thought of peoples crossing some imaginary line on a map. I'm completely over the border nonsense.
    Then if we can't get the will or the ability to send them back then the next option is to make their ability to live here illegally as hard, difficult, and unappealing as possible not make it easier and more appealing.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Then if we can't get the will or the ability to send them back then the next option is to make their ability to live here illegally as hard, difficult, and unappealing as possible not make it easier and more appealing.
    The issue is actually holding employers accountable, with threatened jail time, for hiring illegals, and loosening up the standards to allow businesses to question potentially fraudulent identification (they can't, now, or they can be sued for discrimination). Cut out the money, and you remove the reason to come here.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Then if we can't get the will or the ability to send them back then the next option is to make their ability to live here illegally as hard, difficult, and unappealing as possible not make it easier and more appealing.
    Have fun with that. I have no interest in it.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    This would be a bad policy under the current process; however, once the Government makes it easy to verify SS and visa information on line for employers, then yes, if they willfully flaunt our laws they should be thrown in jail or heavily fined.

    Right now, employers are expected to be legally liable for determining whether a SS card has been illegally obtained (they are easy to forge in their current form). In addition, many States, like California, issue drivers licenses and the Democrat controlled legislatures continue arguing FOR providing drivers licenses for illegal aliens.

    It is hard to expect the employer to enforce immigration laws when the State issues them drivers licenses which is one of the forms of ID required to be verified by the employer.
    You never heard of an I-9 form? If an illegal uses a fake SS card, then the employer is not liable. If an employer does not fill out an I-9 (most who hire illegals don't), then the employer should get a 30 day sentence to think about it. If an employer falsifies an I-9, it should be good for at least a year in prison.
    Last edited by danarhea; 09-28-09 at 08:56 PM.
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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    the fact that 22 house libs are pushing for illegals' inclusion shows how far the party is from reaching agreement on health care

    its problems appear insuperable

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    It must suck to be Obama, right now. 22 Democrats just made him into a huge liar. Looks like Joe Wilson was right on target.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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