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Thread: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by beez0811 View Post
    Financially, yes, but will they really go to an actual doctor? Will a doctor with an established practice want to take on illegals as patients?
    If they have insurance, um yeah.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Have these clowns been asleep for the past few months? Are they trying to get voted out?
    It's one of those distracting issues that will get folks all emotionally worked up and heated.

    But rationally and logically folks should realize it's more cost effective to include illegals in the plan rather than trying to exclude them. They will be seen - one way or another. The ER costs more, being uninsured costs more, etc. Inevitably they get care and society picks up the tab AS IT IS RIGHT NOW. We might as well do ourselves a favor and make the tab more cost efficient.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    It's one of those distracting issues that will get folks all emotionally worked up and heated.

    But rationally and logically folks should realize it's more cost effective to include illegals in the plan rather than trying to exclude them. They will be seen - one way or another. The ER costs more, being uninsured costs more, etc. Inevitably they get care and society picks up the tab AS IT IS RIGHT NOW. We might as well do ourselves a favor and make the tab more cost efficient.
    All the more reason to get a handle on illegal immigration. You would have an easier time selling the idea of spending more money on controlling illegal immigration than you would spending more money to give illegals insurance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    All the more reason to get a handle on illegal immigration. You would have an easier time selling the idea of spending more money on controlling illegal immigration than you would spending more money to give illegals insurance.
    I'm over worrying about controlling illegals. It's not as easy as it sounds and we (as a country) don't seem to have the stomach for it.

    I was at a wedding this summer where my brother married one of these so called illegals. She's in the process of finishing up her application for legal status and it's likely she will be accepted given that my brother is now married to her and signed documents showing he has been gainfully employed for years and is more than capable of supporting her. But even with all that there's a chance she may be turned down.

    Anyway at the wedding mixing with her relatives I came to see how huge this problem is. It's incredible how these families are so mixed where a father is a citizen but a mother is not or both parents are not but 2 siblings are and 1 isn't. It's crazy. The gal my brother married was dragged here at 15. And yeah I say dragged 'cause her parents brought her. What was she to do? Stay in Mexico without her family at 15? Her sister is a citizen. Her mother gave birth to the sister here, but not her. Anyway her mother dragged her here. She wanted to stay in Mexico with her friends, her school, etc. But the family was moving up here. Most relatives were already here. Few were left in Mexico. Because her mother did this to her she is now a full grown woman who worries every single time she drives on the freeway about getting pulled over and deported. She never finished high school. When she came here, at 15, her mother opted to just put her in adult night classes that teach Spanish speaking folks English. They lied and said she was 18 to get her in. She can never get a job making any real money 'cause she has to work under the table. No drivers license. No ID at all. It's a god damn mess and it's her parents fault.

    I thought her story was crazy. Then I met her extended family and friends. Her story is not unique. It's common. There are illegals who have been here since they were 2 years old. They have siblings that are legal. They remember nothing of Mexico. Should they be tossed back over the fence?

    The issue is far more complex than folks make it out to be.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I'm over worrying about controlling illegals. It's not as easy as it sounds and we (as a country) don't seem to have the stomach for it.

    I was at a wedding this summer where my brother married one of these so called illegals. She's in the process of finishing up her application for legal status and it's likely she will be accepted given that my brother is now married to her and signed documents showing he has been gainfully employed for years and is more than capable of supporting her. But even with all that there's a chance she may be turned down.

    Anyway at the wedding mixing with her relatives I came to see how huge this problem is. It's incredible how these families are so mixed where a father is a citizen but a mother is not or both parents are not but 2 siblings are and 1 isn't. It's crazy. The gal my brother married was dragged here at 15. And yeah I say dragged 'cause her parents brought her. What was she to do? Stay in Mexico without her family at 15? Her sister is a citizen. Her mother gave birth to the sister here, but not her. Anyway her mother dragged her here. She wanted to stay in Mexico with her friends, her school, etc. But the family was moving up here. Most relatives were already here. Few were left in Mexico. Because her mother did this to her she is now a full grown woman who worries every single time she drives on the freeway about getting pulled over and deported. She never finished high school. When she came here, at 15, her mother opted to just put her in adult night classes that teach Spanish speaking folks English. They lied and said she was 18 to get her in. She can never get a job making any real money 'cause she has to work under the table. No drivers license. No ID at all. It's a god damn mess and it's her parents fault.

    I thought her story was crazy. Then I met her extended family and friends. Her story is not unique. It's common. There are illegals who have been here since they were 2 years old. They have siblings that are legal. They remember nothing of Mexico. Should they be tossed back over the fence?

    The issue is far more complex than folks make it out to be.
    The longer we do nothing, the worse it will get. I disagree that we as country don't have the stomach to deal with it. It's the politicians that lack the intestinal fortitude to deal with it. IMO, doing nothing isn't the answer and amnesty surely isn't. The situation that alot of Mexican families find themselves in sucks, to be sure, but we can't let our bleeding hearts get in the way of what's best for the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Given that illegals currently use the costly ER for most everything and anything and given that the ERs in the country basically treat anyone who walks through the door whether they have ins or not, (illegal or not), it's arguably more cost effective to just include them in any plans vs. not. No?

    If we're gonna pay for them one way or another I'd rather just fund regular cheaper dr. visits vs the ER for all their colds and sniffles.
    If we threw employers who hired illegal aliens in jail, then we would not be even talking about whether they should use the ER or be included, because the majority of them would be back in the country they came from.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Link

    I don't care if they allow legal immigrants access to health care. But illegal immigrants? Hell no.

    This article is dishonest, or just bad. It contradicts itself:

    The Democrats, trying to stiffen their party's spines on the contentious issue, say it's unfair to bar illegal immigrants from paying their own way in a government-sponsored exchange. Legal immigrants, they say, regardless of how long they've been in the United States, should be able to get government-subsidized health care if they meet the other eligibility requirements.



    It makes no sense to bar illegals from paying their own way in purchasing health insurance. And this paragraph notes that the argument is to allow them to use their own money to purchase insurance. But then it says they will be purchasing gov't-subsidized insurance. This is false, or a lie. The insurance plans are not subsidized. If they are paying premiums, they are paying full boat. Certain people will qualify for subsidies, but certainly not everyone. The plans themselves are not subsidized.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Given that illegals currently use the costly ER for most everything and anything and given that the ERs in the country basically treat anyone who walks through the door whether they have ins or not, (illegal or not), it's arguably more cost effective to just include them in any plans vs. not. No?

    If we're gonna pay for them one way or another I'd rather just fund regular cheaper dr. visits vs the ER for all their colds and sniffles.
    This is of course, illogical. Yes the FACT is that our States require hospitals to provide ER care to illegal aliens and even requires an interpreter if they cannot speak English. And it is RIGHT to provide ANYONE with Emergency care regardless of status as a moral obligation.

    But then the logical person asks the following question; why is it then that we treat them but do not report them to the immigration officials so that when they are released front he hospitals, they can be sent back to whence they came?

    This whole healthcare debate is beyond farcical, but the argument that illegal aliens have rights is beyond farcical and borders on insane.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    But rationally and logically folks should realize it's more cost effective to include illegals in the plan rather than trying to exclude them.
    No, this would be a continuance of the current irrationality of the debate regarding ILLEGAL aliens.

    Yes, anyone who requires critical care need to be provided for; morally one cannot stand by and watch someone die on our streets. But the notion that we then just let them go back to the streets after they receive treatment is beyond the pale.

    The reason we have an ILLEGAL alien problem in this nation is our Nations disregard for our laws, particularly State Governments like California's.

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    Re: Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Given that illegals currently use the costly ER for most everything and anything and given that the ERs in the country basically treat anyone who walks through the door whether they have ins or not, (illegal or not), it's arguably more cost effective to just include them in any plans vs. not. No?

    If we're gonna pay for them one way or another I'd rather just fund regular cheaper dr. visits vs the ER for all their colds and sniffles.
    Crazy thought.

    How about using the money to isntead find and deport them, and to further secure the borders to stop people coming in. (Also of course actually enforce current laws on employers)

    Its quite arguable that doing that would also be more cost effective than treating them in ER's, while having the additional benefit of removing those illegally here from the country.

    Somehow rewarding them because they've managed to **** the system so massively is not what I view as the correct method. All that does is FURTHER encourage people to break the laws and come here illegally.

    Hell, take advantage of the ER situation and after treating them and finding them not to be legal citizens call the cops and send them back. At the very least it should hopefully deter those that use it as a means of care because their kid has the sniffles or a sprained ankle.

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