• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

If Iran is indeed building nukes, it is to assure its long term sovereignty. The Western media selectively takes what its leaders say about Israel and apply the pretext that the nukes will be automatically used for war, but I seriously doubt this.

Its government is engaged in the 5 Year Plan which involves huge infrastructure projects within the country. There aren't signs of a huge military investment on a scale that would indicate a nation out for blood. Why invest so much into the domestic realm if the eventual goal is to just attack another country? Too many people envision Iran as just some place in the desert.

The capital:
http://iranair.it/img/tehran_azadi_new.jpg
http://en.tehran.ir/Portals/25/Image/1386/51/Tehran-SanatSQ-00.jpg
http://www.travel-earth.com/iran/tehran.jpg

All of this rambling about the threat of nuclear holocaust is based largely in fear and ignorance. Few seem to know a damn thing about Iran other than what they watch on the news. It's a country growing rapidly and wanting clean energy could simply be part of that.

If Iran is indeed seeking nuclear deterrence, then what do you expect? All the nations around it are slowly falling under a U.S. umbrella of power. It needs to protect itself from invasion.
 
cool, but:

1. apologizing for persia is prodigiously problematic---politically

2. pursing diplomacy with its potentates is preposterous

3. the revolutionary guard test fired 2 short range missiles today, particularly provocative

My Way News - Iran test-fires short-range missiles
 
If Iran is indeed building nukes, it is to assure its long term sovereignty. The Western media selectively takes what its leaders say about Israel and apply the pretext that the nukes will be automatically used for war, but I seriously doubt this.

Its government is engaged in the 5 Year Plan which involves huge infrastructure projects within the country. There aren't signs of a huge military investment on a scale that would indicate a nation out for blood. Why invest so much into the domestic realm if the eventual goal is to just attack another country? Too many people envision Iran as just some place in the desert.

The capital:
http://iranair.it/img/tehran_azadi_new.jpg
http://en.tehran.ir/Portals/25/Image/1386/51/Tehran-SanatSQ-00.jpg
http://www.travel-earth.com/iran/tehran.jpg

All of this rambling about the threat of nuclear holocaust is based largely in fear and ignorance. Few seem to know a damn thing about Iran other than what they watch on the news. It's a country growing rapidly and wanting clean energy could simply be part of that.

If Iran is indeed seeking nuclear deterrence, then what do you expect? All the nations around it are slowly falling under a U.S. umbrella of power. It needs to protect itself from invasion.
You are confusing two separate issues here.
Nobody is attacking the Persian nation or the Persian culture, so I see no reason for you to defend it.
The attacked entity is the Iranian government, a government neglected by the Persian nation itself, a tyrannical government that knows no limits and is not afraid to use force against its own people when they cry for their rights.

As the world leaders said, the second Iranian nuclear facility that was revealed now clearly shows that the Iranian intent is not simply nuclear energy.
The amount of centrifuges in this facility combined with the thousands of centrifuges already in-work at Iran is beyond mere nuclear energy.
 
If Iran is indeed building nukes, it is to assure its long term sovereignty. The Western media selectively takes what its leaders say about Israel and apply the pretext that the nukes will be automatically used for war, but I seriously doubt this.

Its government is engaged in the 5 Year Plan which involves huge infrastructure projects within the country. There aren't signs of a huge military investment on a scale that would indicate a nation out for blood. Why invest so much into the domestic realm if the eventual goal is to just attack another country? Too many people envision Iran as just some place in the desert.

The capital:
http://iranair.it/img/tehran_azadi_new.jpg
http://en.tehran.ir/Portals/25/Image/1386/51/Tehran-SanatSQ-00.jpg
http://www.travel-earth.com/iran/tehran.jpg

All of this rambling about the threat of nuclear holocaust is based largely in fear and ignorance. Few seem to know a damn thing about Iran other than what they watch on the news. It's a country growing rapidly and wanting clean energy could simply be part of that.

If Iran is indeed seeking nuclear deterrence, then what do you expect? All the nations around it are slowly falling under a U.S. umbrella of power. It needs to protect itself from invasion.

Whatever the reason Iran is seeking a weapon, a nuclear armed Iran is unacceptable for the United States. Why? Because Iran will start a nuclear holocaust in Israel? Probably not.

However, a nuclear Iran will result in a wave of proliferation across the Middle East, ending with states like Egypt and Saudi Arabia possessing nuclear weapons as well. In states such as these, the presence of this amount of fissile material means that the chance that a terror group gets its hands on such material.

I will say right now that the prospect of a nuclear armed Saudi Arabia is more frightening than a nuclear armed Iran.

On top of all of this, Iran with a nuclear weapon will upset the entire balance of power in the Middle East (until the ensuing proliferation wave is complete) which is directly contrary to US interests in the region.

The reason the US does not want to see Iran with a weapon is not because they think that Israel will be destroyed (although that is probably on the list somewhere) but rather it is because such an event would upset the entire balance of power in the Middle East and shift it away from a "West-Friendly" (sort of at least) to what Iran wants to make it.
 
Perhaps an arms race wouldn't have been provoked to begin with if there wasn't a Middle East state that was in possession of an undeclared and concealed arsenal to begin with.
 
Perhaps an arms race wouldn't have been provoked to begin with if there wasn't a Middle East state that was in possession of an undeclared and concealed arsenal to begin with.

And especially, if that same state never did exist. Right?
 
Perhaps an arms race wouldn't have been provoked to begin with if there wasn't a Middle East state that was in possession of an undeclared and concealed arsenal to begin with.

So Iran is building them because Israel may have them? Is that your claim?
 
Some countries should be allowed t have nukes and some countries shouldn't. Iran is definitely one of the latter.
 
My post was a suggestion that you may want to re-think your own. Are you sure you want to claim that no "Middle East state...in possession of an undeclared and concealed arsenal" exists?

I never made any such claim, sir.
 
Your post was ambiguous. I see what you mean now, but you could have worded that one a bit more carefully. Regardless, your post still didn't address my point. :2wave:

You could have read it a bit more carefully, obviously.
 
Perhaps an arms race wouldn't have been provoked to begin with if there wasn't a Middle East state that was in possession of an undeclared and concealed arsenal to begin with.

The United States government was "convinced" that by 1975 Israel was in possession of nuclear weapons. Are you to tell me that an "arms race" will occur because 35 years ago Israel obtained nuclear weapons?
 
I see you're continuing your pattern of not actually responding to my post. I'll have to assume that this is because you don't have any actual response to offer. :shrug:

I responded several posts back. However, you wish to play, "he said, she said", instead of adressing my counter point.
 
The United States government was "convinced" that by 1975 Israel was in possession of nuclear weapons. Are you to tell me that an "arms race" will occur because 35 years ago Israel obtained nuclear weapons?

I believe there was a dictatorial U.S.-supported regime in power in Iran in 1975. Silly misconception of mine, perhaps, but I happen to think it's true. :shrug:

I responded several posts back. However, you wish to play, "he said, she said", instead of adressing my counter point.

You didn't respond to the content of my post, which is understandable, because you have no idea what to say.
 
Perhaps an arms race wouldn't have been provoked to begin with if there wasn't a Middle East state that was in possession of an undeclared and concealed arsenal to begin with.

Your Funny Undeclair what rock have you lived under, it's well know fact that not only do Israel have Nuke Weapons but they have them on a 24/7 DEFCON 2 Status.
 
Perhaps some folks here had better be a little more worried about an Iran armed with nukes and missles.

There has been talk in the intel community about Iranian cargo vessels with hidden missle launchers, firing same from near the coast of CONUS. And if we dork around long enough, they'll have ICBM's and nukes small enough to fit on them.

As for how they would not dare, it would be suicide...well some of them don't seem to care about that:

As Iran rushes towards confrontation with the world over its nuclear programme, the question uppermost in the mind of western leaders is "What is moving its President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to such recklessness?"

Political analysts point to the fact that Iran feels strong because of high oil prices, while America has been weakened by the insurgency in Iraq.


But listen carefully to the utterances of Mr Ahmadinejad - recently described by President George W Bush as an "odd man" - and there is another dimension, a religious messianism that, some suspect, is giving the Iranian leader a dangerous sense of divine mission.

In November, the country was startled by a video showing Mr Ahmadinejad telling a cleric that he had felt the hand of God entrancing world leaders as he delivered a speech to the UN General Assembly last September.

When an aircraft crashed in Teheran last month, killing 108 people, Mr Ahmadinejad promised an investigation. But he also thanked the dead, saying: "What is important is that they have shown the way to martyrdom which we must follow."

The most remarkable aspect of Mr Ahmadinejad's piety is his devotion to the Hidden Imam, the Messiah-like figure of Shia Islam, and the president's belief that his government must prepare the country for his return.
One of the first acts of Mr Ahmadinejad's government was to donate about £10 million to the Jamkaran mosque, a popular pilgrimage site where the pious come to drop messages to the Hidden Imam into a holy well.

All streams of Islam believe in a divine saviour, known as the Mahdi, who will appear at the End of Days. A common rumour - denied by the government but widely believed - is that Mr Ahmadinejad and his cabinet have signed a "contract" pledging themselves to work for the return of the Mahdi and sent it to Jamkaran.
Iran's dominant "Twelver" sect believes this will be Mohammed ibn Hasan, regarded as the 12th Imam, or righteous descendant of the Prophet Mohammad.

He is said to have gone into "occlusion" in the ninth century, at the age of five. His return will be preceded by cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed. After a cataclysmic confrontation with evil and darkness, the Mahdi will lead the world to an era of universal peace.
This is similar to the Christian vision of the Apocalypse. Indeed, the Hidden Imam is expected to return in the company of Jesus.

Mr Ahmadinejad appears to believe that these events are close at hand and that ordinary mortals can influence the divine timetable.

The prospect of such a man obtaining nuclear weapons is worrying. The unspoken question is this: is Mr Ahmadinejad now tempting a clash with the West because he feels safe in the belief of the imminent return of the Hidden Imam? Worse, might he be trying to provoke chaos in the hope of hastening his reappearance?
The 49-year-old Mr Ahmadinejad, a former top engineering student, member of the Revolutionary Guards and mayor of Teheran, overturned Iranian politics after unexpectedly winning last June's presidential elections.

The main rift is no longer between "reformists" and "hardliners", but between the clerical establishment and Mr Ahmadinejad's brand of revolutionary populism and superstition.

Its most remarkable manifestation came with Mr Ahmadinejad's international debut, his speech to the United Nations.

World leaders had expected a conciliatory proposal to defuse the nuclear crisis after Teheran had restarted another part of its nuclear programme in August.

Instead, they heard the president speak in apocalyptic terms of Iran struggling against an evil West that sought to promote "state terrorism", impose "the logic of the dark ages" and divide the world into "light and dark countries".

The speech ended with the messianic appeal to God to "hasten the emergence of your last repository, the Promised One, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace".

In a video distributed by an Iranian web site in November, Mr Ahmadinejad described how one of his Iranian colleagues had claimed to have seen a glow of light around the president as he began his speech to the UN.

"I felt it myself too," Mr Ahmadinejad recounts. "I felt that all of a sudden the atmosphere changed there. And for 27-28 minutes all the leaders did not blink…It's not an exaggeration, because I was looking.

"They were astonished, as if a hand held them there and made them sit. It had opened their eyes and ears for the message of the Islamic Republic."

Western officials said the real reason for any open-eyed stares from delegates was that "they couldn't believe what they were hearing from Ahmadinejad".

Their sneaking suspicion is that Iran's president actually relishes a clash with the West in the conviction that it would rekindle the spirit of the Islamic revolution and - who knows - speed up the arrival of the Hidden Imam.

'Divine mission' driving Iran's new leader - Telegraph

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday that Israel is dying and that its 60th anniversary celebrations are an attempt to prevent its "annihilation."
He spoke hours after President Bush arrived in Israel for the anniversary celebrations.

"The Zionist (Israeli) regime is dying," said Ahmadinejad during a speech in northern Iran. "The criminals assume that by holding celebrations ... they can save the sinister Zionist regime from death and annihilation."
Ahmadinejad used an Arabic word, ismihlal, that can also be translated as destruction, death and collapse.

Iran doesn't recognize Israel, and Ahmadinejad has repeatedly called for Israel's destruction. Threatening exchanges between Iran and Israel have intensified since 2005, when Ahmadinejad said in a speech that Israel will one day be "wiped off the map." The Iranian leader has also described the Holocaust as a "myth."

"Nations of the region hate this criminal fabricated regime (Israel) and will uproot this fabricated regime if the smallest and shortest opportunity is given to them," Ahmadinejad said Wednesday in an address broadcast live on state television.

Israel considers Iran a serious threat because of its support for Hamas and Hezbollah militants, its nuclear program and its arsenal of long-range missiles, which can be fitted with nuclear warheads and are capable of striking the Jewish state.

Tehran is equipped with Shahab-3 missiles, which have a range of up to 1,250 miles. Israel is about 625 miles west of Iran.


Ahmadinejad says Israel doomed - USATODAY.com


Some people need to realize that the leadership of Iran is not composed of rational Western materialists, who contemplate profit/loss before every move, but to a large degree is peopled by religious fanatics, some of whom have stated that it wouldn't matter if every man woman and child in Iran died in some global nuclear holocaust, if that brought on the return of the 12th Imam.

MAD (mutually assured destruction) counted on the rationality of both sides in the conflict...

G
 
If Iran is developing nukes in secret, then it's to balance power with Israel. Iran is looking out for its sovereignty just like any other country. What the U.S. has to say about who is deserving of nuclear weapons and who isn't is irrelevant to me, as U.S. foreign policy is as inconsistent as the passing wind. If we care so much about the disarmament of Iran, then we should be concerned about the disarmament of the Middle East as a whole. Since we're not, and we are myopically focusing on Iran just because our Western leaders tell us to, things are going to continue unfolding the way they are.

I really don't believe Iran wants a nuclear holocaust. It just wants nuclear deterrence, and I don't blame it. Look at all of the Western campaigns happpening around it. You would want guaranteed protection too. That Iran is a theocracy has no relevance to this fact.
 
Back
Top Bottom