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Thread: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I think dialogue over nuclear weapons is important, but I don't think U.S. foreign policy should be the driving force behind the UN policy on the pursuit of nuclear sanctions, as it currently is. As long as the U.S. is in bed with Israel, its position is far too biased. Furthermore, after Iraq the CIA lost a great deal of credibility.
    The U.S. is certainly not 'in bed' with Israel, the relationship between the two nations is an alliance.
    Obama himself has made more than several claims that neglect Israeli interests, and hence, the US being in bed with Israel is a baseless claim.
    The only point that is of intrinsic value to me is that Iran signed the non-proliferation treaty, so according to its own voice it is against its own possession of nuclear weapons. Any other standard to me is irrelevant.
    This would only make sense if it was the same Iranian regime that has signed the NPPT.
    The current regime is nearly the opposite of the one who signed on the document.

    Furthermore, the NPPT does not deny a nation the freedom to produce nuclear energy.
    Iran however has violated the NPPT more than a dozens of times already and has over twenty times more centrifuges than allowed.
    As the world leaders said, Iran's desire to nuclear power is no longer controversial, the second nuclear facility is the cutting evidence that it is not after mere nuclear energy.
    If the atomic agency can prove Iran has weapons or is developing them, and it hasn't, then I'll consider the options.
    The evidence is already strong enough, that's why the world leaders already act towards the disarmament of Iran from nuclear weapons.
    I believe it's universally bad no matter what nation has them, but that, simultaneously, we cannot always control who develops them. There are also aggravating factors. For example, the Security Council powers have set the standard of only granting nations with nuclear arms the power of the veto. I've always been an advocate of inviting nations like Germany and Japan to have a seat on the council to offset this impression.
    Not all of the nations with nuclear weapons are on the security council, so I do not understand your claim.
    Israel is, of course, the other factor. As long as Israel has nukes in the basement, Iran will want them too. That's POLISCI 101.
    When Iran has begun its way towards nukes, Israel was in a very good relationship with it, one of its biggest allies.
    Israel having nuclear weapons or not is by no means different than France or the UK having them, as those nations are democracies that have never threatened to destroy another nation or to use their nuclear weapons.
    Irrational regimes, however, such as North Korea and Iran, are certainly not to be allowed such devastating power into their hands.
    It depends on who has them at this point, but I think every power in the Middle East, without exception, is is not suited to have such weapons. That said, Israel has them, and Israel is backed by a world super power, and so other nations will want to balance that.
    Israeli nuclear power is rumored around for more than 40 years.
    It is a based fact by now that the Israeli nuclear power, if existent, is by no means harmful to the world's nations.
    Same goes for France, the UK, etc.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    2) You believe a regime who openly supports terrorism to achieve their desired goals should have them and will be responsible with them.
    I understand and sympathize with your objection to terrorists like Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir holding high state positions, but really, what can we do?

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I understand and sympathize with your objection to terrorists like Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir holding high state positions, but really, what can we do?
    *cough*troll*cough*
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    *cough*troll*cough*
    So the personal attack is your preferred mode of communication? Perhaps you should instead consider the fact that the president of the aforementioned "peaceful" nation that you mentioned has threatened that Iran could be "wiped off the map," and that its "democratic" character involves supremacy by a specific ethnic/religious group enshrined in its very declaration of establishment rather than the multi-cultural aspects regarded as a necessary facet of liberal democracy. Perhaps.

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    So the personal attack is your preferred mode of communication? Perhaps you should instead consider the fact that the president of the aforementioned "peaceful" nation that you mentioned has threatened that Iran could be "wiped off the map," and that its "democratic" character involves supremacy by a specific ethnic/religious group enshrined in its very declaration of establishment rather than the multi-cultural aspects regarded as a necessary facet of liberal democracy. Perhaps.
    In the movie "The Dark Knight" nearing the end, Batman alerts the Joker that if he'd press the button he'll kick his ass.

    Just sayin'...
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    In the movie "The Dark Knight" nearing the end, Batman alerts the Joker that if he'd press the button he'll kick his ass.

    Just sayin'...
    Well, no...considering that there's little basis for comparison between wishing for the disapperance of a political regime and the destruction of an actual country, I think you're just misspeaking more than anything else.

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Well, no...considering that there's little basis for comparison between wishing for the disapperance of a political regime and the destruction of an actual country, I think you're just misspeaking more than anything else.
    It is the same thing dear confused one.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    It is the same thing dear confused one.
    Advocating the removal of a political regime is equivalent to advocating the violent destruction of the country that it governs? I wasn't aware that the teabaggers were advocating their own spontaneous combustion, but now that you mention it, the pieces of the puzzle do seem to all come together!

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Advocating the removal of a political regime is equivalent to advocating the violent destruction of the country that it governs? I wasn't aware that the teabaggers were advocating their own spontaneous combustion, but now that you mention it, the pieces of the puzzle do seem to all come together!
    Perhaps because you yourself has created some of the pieces, in order to fill in your ignorance.
    The president has replied to the Iranian threat to remove Israel from the map with the the reminder that "they too can be removed".
    This is by no means different from alerting the criminal of the consequences of his actions.

    Of course your puzzle does seem to have unrelated pieces in it, such as the decision that the president has talked about a whole nation while the nutjob has spoken about a specific regime.
    However it does match your pattern of behavior to support an irrational regime that would go on to the level of shooting its own people and supporting terrorism, so it is no wonder that you'd try to fit in the puzzle pieces that do not belong by using pure force.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Iran 'concealed nuclear facility'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Perhaps because you yourself has created some of the pieces, in order to fill in your ignorance.
    The president has replied to the Iranian threat to remove Israel from the map with the the reminder that "they too can be removed".
    This is by no means different from alerting the criminal of the consequences of his actions.

    Of course your puzzle does seem to have unrelated pieces in it, such as the decision that the president has talked about a whole nation while the nutjob has spoken about a specific regime.
    Actually, no, we've discussed the allegation that such a threat was issued at length long before you arrived here, and it was found lacking, not least of which because no such idiom as "wiped off the map" even exists in Farsi, which just might be a clue that something is amiss. If the president was speaking of a specific regime, he should have specified it, as the phrase "the regime occupying Jerusalem" does. However, he chose to speak of a country being "wiped off the map" instead, which is illustrative either of his mental imbalance, chronic stupidity, or both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    However it does match your pattern of behavior to support an irrational regime that would go on to the level of shooting its own people and supporting terrorism, so it is no wonder that you'd try to fit in the puzzle pieces that do not belong by using pure force.
    I've never offered any support for the terrorists Menachem Begin or Yitzhak Shamir, and thus cannot fathom what you're talking about.

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