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Thread: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    They can dress up a prostitute, and arrest you when you solicit sexual acts from her.
    Well I did say they would do the convincing, i.e. not wait for solicitation but engage in active "selling". But it wouldn't make a difference, I'm sure the cops do it all the time regardless.

    As I said, the government doesn't believe in entrapment anymore. But it's not rightful act of just government to entrap people.
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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal offices
    Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:41pm EDT
    (Updates with court hearing)



    UPDATE 1-Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal offices | Markets | Markets News | Reuters

    YIKES!

    He tried to detonate the fake explosives! This would have been another Oklahoma City style attack but by a converted Muslim.

    I think the man is a idiot. He basically trusted someone on the internet whom he just practically met on the internet to help him commit a terrorist act and buy explosives from.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But it's not rightful act of just government to entrap people.
    You can't entrap someone in a terror plot who doesn't strongly WANT to engage in acts of terror. Just like you can't entrap someone in a prostitution sting that doesn't want to engage the services of a hooker.

    This one statement says it all:

    Finton was arrested on Wednesday in Springfield as he used a cell phone to try to detonate the bomb he believed was inside a van he had just parked outside the federal building.
    I'm sorry, but thinking that you're detonating a bomb goes rather beyond "entrapment."
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 09-25-09 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    You can't entrap someone in a terror plot who doesn't strongly WANT to engage in acts of terror. Just like you can't entrap someone in a prostitution sting that doesn't want to engage the services of a hooker.This one statement says it all:



    I'm sorry, but thinking that you're detonating a bomb goes rather beyond "entrapment."
    I think the two are completely separate, no law enforcement agents lead the John to go looking for a prostitute, nor did law enforcement agents tell the john where the prostitute is, nor did the law enforcement agents suggest to the john that he needs to get laid and get a prostitute. If I read the story right the undercover law enforcement basically went to him and helped him plot out an attack. For all we know he would be just another crazy on the internet spewing leftist drivel how Zionist Jews are doing this or doing that if he was never approached.


    UPDATE 1-Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal offices | Markets | Markets News | Reuters
    "After returning from a trip to Saudi Arabia in 2008, Finton told an individual, who turned out to be a law enforcement source, that he wanted to fight against Israelis in the Gaza Strip, according to the complaint.

    In early 2009, "it appeared that Finton was on the verge of taking action, so it was decided to proactively provide him with an opportunity for action that we controlled, rather than merely hoping to be able to find out and stop him," according to a government affidavit.

    He was introduced to an undercover FBI agent who began working with him to plot an attack, but Finton was repeatedly told he could walk away at any time, according to the Justice Department."
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-25-09 at 02:18 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    This is another case of someone being led into plotting terrorist attacks by undercover law enforcement. It certainly walks down a dangerous path. While it is clear that this man was willing to commit an act of terrorism if given the means, that doesn't mean he would have been able to obtain said means on his own. Many people talk tough or wish terrible things, but don't actually follow through. In this case I believe the conviction should stand, but only by a paper-thing margin. Catching terrorists that you create isn't the best way to protect our citizens.
    He tried to set off the fake explosives.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    He tried to set off the fake explosives.
    While i agree that the act of trying to set off fake explosives is the obvious kicker, does he deserve the max sentence in this case?

    As pointed out previously by multiple posters, the Feds are going to have to prove (with surveillance proof of ALL encounters with this guy) that he was actually attempting to find "like thinking" individuals, or was attempting to form an underground extremest group.

    The Fed's simply cannot dress up like highly connected criminals, and attempt to recruit the likes of some discerned individuals under a false dilemma. The sheer act of pretending to be a connected crime figure (or something of the mold) only distorts the actions of the people under investigation. Yes, the guy was no doubt "willing" to push the button, but without the fake help, would he have?

    So my question is, why not try to stop the real illegal arms/materials/explosives smugglers instead of dressing up like them? And if this is a case of penetrating such a ring of criminals, why blow the cover?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    While i agree that the act of trying to set off fake explosives is the obvious kicker, does he deserve the max sentence in this case?
    Do you know what he will be convicted of and what the max sentence is?

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    "trying to use a weapon of mass destruction, charges that carry a life sentence."
    Yes, but was he coerced into believing he could be successful, and should do this? If the answer is yes, then does he deserve the life sentence?

    With this charge in mind, did he in fact try to use a real weapon, or a fake weapon of mass destruction?
    Last edited by Kushinator; 09-25-09 at 03:13 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Yes, but was he coerced into believing he could be successful, and should do this? If the answer is yes, then does he deserve the life sentence?

    With this charge in mind, did he in fact try to use a real weapon, or a fake weapon of mass destruction?
    Thanks for bringing this to my distracted attention. If left to his own devices the perp WOULD have detonated a REAL WMD.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal office

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    You can't entrap someone in a terror plot who doesn't strongly WANT to engage in acts of terror. Just like you can't entrap someone in a prostitution sting that doesn't want to engage the services of a hooker.

    This one statement says it all:



    I'm sorry, but thinking that you're detonating a bomb goes rather beyond "entrapment."
    You most certainly can be entrapped. Who's to say he'd go through with any of this if it wasn't for the convincing and provided "materials" by the government. It's the same as prostitution. Maybe I'm not going to buy (or is it rent?) a prostitute. But a cop comes up to me dressed as one and pushes the case till I think it's an ok idea. That's entrapment. I think we must be wary with what we do and allow from the government in terms of finding terrorists (or criminals in general).
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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