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G-20 opponents, police clash on Pittsburgh streets

I was joking. I'm a misunderstood genius...honest.

You had a point... the original intent was that civil disobedience does not require anything on your part other then the intent to be disobedient... eventually because these protests were blocking streets and that cops were needed above and beyond the usual numbers, the permits were made to allow the blocking of traffic and to allocate the funding for the extra police hours.

That said, you can go any day of the week with a placard and walk up and down the street protesting, so long as you aren't breaking any laws there's nothing that can be done to stop you.
 
You had a point... the original intent was that civil disobedience does not require anything on your part other then the intent to be disobedient... eventually because these protests were blocking streets and that cops were needed above and beyond the usual numbers, the permits were made to allow the blocking of traffic and to allocate the funding for the extra police hours.

That said, you can go any day of the week with a placard and walk up and down the street protesting, so long as you aren't breaking any laws there's nothing that can be done to stop you.

To me, the point of protesting is to spread awareness and, if necessary, dissent. How is the protest supposed to grow and gain more attention if it requires government permission and it can only be confined to a certain area?

It's all about power and who has it. Think about the French Revolution. Even when tens of thousands were taking up arms to attack the government over legitimate problems, the government still tried to tell them that they were wrong and should stand down.

Now, in modern times, we have the full arsenal of the riot squad and the military. They'll use any excuse to break up a protest that challenges neo-liberalism. That is how the modern establishment operates.
 
To me, the point of protesting is to spread awareness and, if necessary, dissent. How is the protest supposed to grow and gain more attention if it requires government permission and it can only be confined to a certain area?

It's all about power and who has it. Think about the French Revolution. Even when tens of thousands were taking up arms to attack the government over legitimate problems, the government still tried to tell them that they were wrong and should stand down.

Now, in modern times, we have the full arsenal of the riot squad and the military. They'll use any excuse to break up a protest that challenges neo-liberalism. That is how the modern establishment operates.

I completely agree with you... but not only do they have the full riot gear, at nearly every major globalist meeting it can be shown (if not proven) that the violent elements are cops or paid instigators (black bloc). For the past 30-40 years every attempt has been made in the media to demonize protest as a fringe group of hippies and violent anarchists (while those are there too) and the focus is on anything and everything but the grievances of those out protesting.

Now, having the army going out with, and taking the role of police, it should be becoming more and more evident that the government is trying to force a flashpoint where violence will erupt and the full force of the millitary can be unleashed against the american people to 'domesticate' them fully into accepting the new reality of doing what you're told. It's the new freedom to have cops assaulting a university, and beating down and arresting students (of course in the media they will say that they were 'protecting the students from anarchists', but the videos tell another story).

Welcome to the new america, where you are free to sit down and shut the hell up.
 
I completely agree with you... but not only do they have the full riot gear, at nearly every major globalist meeting it can be shown (if not proven) that the violent elements are cops or paid instigators (black bloc). For the past 30-40 years every attempt has been made in the media to demonize protest as a fringe group of hippies and violent anarchists (while those are there too) and the focus is on anything and everything but the grievances of those out protesting.

Now, having the army going out with, and taking the role of police, it should be becoming more and more evident that the government is trying to force a flashpoint where violence will erupt and the full force of the millitary can be unleashed against the american people to 'domesticate' them fully into accepting the new reality of doing what you're told. It's the new freedom to have cops assaulting a university, and beating down and arresting students (of course in the media they will say that they were 'protecting the students from anarchists', but the videos tell another story).

Welcome to the new america, where you are free to sit down and shut the hell up.

Look Dude your full of ****, you have no idea what your talking about I have already explain to you how and why the Penn. Army Guard Units were there, you have no idea on how and when a Guard Unit could and can be used by the Federal Govn. I suggest you just stop now because the more you post the more it show's how much of an moron you are on this subject.

Also like I ask before show me the actual proof that in the following citieds,Seattle,London Pittsburg,Ottowa it was Polic whpo started the violance. You would think if they had then Esp. in London thast the Police woul dhave been charge same goes for Canada. Come pon you open your mouth time for you to either put up or shut the **** up on this subject.
 
To me, the point of protesting is to spread awareness and, if necessary, dissent. How is the protest supposed to grow and gain more attention if it requires government permission and it can only be confined to a certain area?

It's all about power and who has it. Think about the French Revolution. Even when tens of thousands were taking up arms to attack the government over legitimate problems, the government still tried to tell them that they were wrong and should stand down.

Now, in modern times, we have the full arsenal of the riot squad and the military. They'll use any excuse to break up a protest that challenges neo-liberalism. That is how the modern establishment operates.

Protest does not need government permission, it simply needs to be lawful. If I want to block off the streets holding a parade, I need a permit. If I want to block off a street holding a protest, I likewise need a permit. The law is blind to your reasons, only your actions.

Contrast this protest to the 9/12 protest, where they did the ground work, got the permissions, and there where no arrests. The problem is not the police, it's the people who don't think the law applies to them.
 
Look Dude your full of ****, you have no idea what your talking about I have already explain to you how and why the Penn. Army Guard Units were there, you have no idea on how and when a Guard Unit could and can be used by the Federal Govn. I suggest you just stop now because the more you post the more it show's how much of an moron you are on this subject.

Dude, I'm not talking about the legality of it anymore... you made your point that they are acting legally... that doesn't change the fact that this is an exercise in habituation to having army presence integrating with the police... which was my point. You're still stuck in time about 20 posts back.

Also like I ask before show me the actual proof that in the following citieds,Seattle,London Pittsburg,Ottowa it was Polic whpo started the violance. You would think if they had then Esp. in London thast the Police woul dhave been charge same goes for Canada. Come pon you open your mouth time for you to either put up or shut the **** up on this subject.

I know you'll just deny it all again... but here we go : Short of getting these guys pay stubs...

Seattle (This was the only one still on youtube with the relevant clips_: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mAWslHmiok"]YouTube - POLICE STATE II: THE TAKEOVER - Seattle WTO Protest - Pt 1/3[/ame]

London :
window.jpg

Ya, 50 camera's filiming 1 guy breaking windows... that's not staged at all...
How many people did cops kill at that protest again?

Not to mention the ADMISSION that cops infiltrate protest groups, with one of them caught with a rock (who was later CONFIRMED) as a police officer... that's where they mentioned that this was the 'STANDARD POLICE PRACTISE WORLDWIDE" ADMITTED.

In Pittsburgh, the anarchists started rolling bins and throwing rocks (it's reported, the video hasn't surfaced yet).

Of course, any group that goes out to these protests will announce a policy within their group of non-violent protest... it's always the 'anarchists', who cause trouble, while the majority of the group tries to seperate from them, yet the police never attack the anarchists with the same force that they will the non-violent ones

So I know that's probably not the proof you were hoping for, but you wouldn't settle for anything less then the level of evidence to support a prosecution.... names, how much they were paid, etc...

Tell me, is it in the better interet of the government to allow the general public to hear the grievances of the protestors, or to ensure that they group can be demonized?? Answer honestly, if only to yourself.
 
Evan though I do not believe that there are hardily any undercover cops causing riots since there isn't any such thing as the statistics burreau of undercover cop causing riots any more than there is a stat for how mnay undrcover marcs we have.

No ****? :lol:

Obviously... That is the whole freakin' point, he is making appeals to emotion with comments that he can't possibly hope to back up with any facts.
 
No ****? :lol:

Obviously... That is the whole freakin' point, he is making appeals to emotion with comments that he can't possibly hope to back up with any facts.

Man, I already showed where cops have been admitted to being used in canada, the 'photo-op' anarchist in london throwing the brick through the window, I hadn't shown the video of the 3 'anarchist' cops at the g-20... they got called out as cops by the protestors themselves... and other videos where they made up a game called 'anarchist or cop' like 'duck duck goose'. Hell, going back to the canadian example, the person coming out and admiting the potential provocateurs (the only guy at the protest to pick up a rock) as being "standard practise world wide" in terms of infiltrating protest groups.

The facts are that if the cops do get arrested that are provocateurs they are quickly released and replaced. That's not to say that there aren't real anarchists, that honestly believe that no government would be ideal and they get brought into the idea of 'tearing it down', those are the groups that are infiltrated by cops.

I've backed it up enough I think... if you want I could also throw in examples from : Geneva, Melbourne, Bamff, etc... Like seriously, if you still deny that cops are the main cause of the violence at most every protest then nothing will convince you... but I'm sorry it's a fact, I've backed it up I can show many more examples... and I can also quote "Standard police practise worldwide" what part did I NOT make clear yet??

(Caution : mature language)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WugWj6CskM&feature=related"]YouTube - Undercover Police Fail - G20 Protest[/ame]

There may be exceptions to the rule, but the violence is not from the core of the protestors, except where they get dragged into mob mentality OR retaliate ... Like this woman :

(Caution: violence)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UohD9lfnbc0"]YouTube - Girl on Bike ASSAULTED, Arrested by Police during G20 in Pittsburgh[/ame]

Who it later turned out was not even interested or involved in the protest, she just got trapped at the wrong place when the police shut the doors on the protestors.... naturally it would take me showing EVERY clip taped and you'd still say I'm lying or something when saying the cops went over-board at the g-20...
 
Man, I already showed where cops have been admitted to being used in canada, the 'photo-op' anarchist in london throwing the brick through the window, I hadn't shown the video of the 3 'anarchist' cops at the g-20... they got called out as cops by the protestors themselves... and other videos where they made up a game called 'anarchist or cop' like 'duck duck goose'. Hell, going back to the canadian example, the person coming out and admiting the potential provocateurs (the only guy at the protest to pick up a rock) as being "standard practise world wide" in terms of infiltrating protest groups.

The facts are that if the cops do get arrested that are provocateurs they are quickly released and replaced. That's not to say that there aren't real anarchists, that honestly believe that no government would be ideal and they get brought into the idea of 'tearing it down', those are the groups that are infiltrated by cops.

I've backed it up enough I think... if you want I could also throw in examples from : Geneva, Melbourne, Bamff, etc... Like seriously, if you still deny that cops are the main cause of the violence at most every protest then nothing will convince you... but I'm sorry it's a fact, I've backed it up I can show many more examples... and I can also quote "Standard police practise worldwide" what part did I NOT make clear yet??

(Caution : mature language)
YouTube - Undercover Police Fail - G20 Protest

There may be exceptions to the rule, but the violence is not from the core of the protestors, except where they get dragged into mob mentality OR retaliate ... Like this woman :

(Caution: violence)
YouTube - Girl on Bike ASSAULTED, Arrested by Police during G20 in Pittsburgh

Who it later turned out was not even interested or involved in the protest, she just got trapped at the wrong place when the police shut the doors on the protestors.... naturally it would take me showing EVERY clip taped and you'd still say I'm lying or something when saying the cops went over-board at the g-20...

So here is the question that I'm still waiting for you to answer where was all of this so-called Police Crap going on in Seattle /Pittsburg huh and where is the Stae/Fed AG going after the Cops if they had did what your saying they did. Show me that proof.

The Cops did nothing wrong in Canad/London/ Seattle or Pittsburg you need to just stop being a moron on this. Oh what I get it now your one of those Lonny now aren't you, that explains everything :rofl:2wave:
 
So here is the question that I'm still waiting for you to answer where was all of this so-called Police Crap going on in Seattle /Pittsburg huh and where is the Stae/Fed AG going after the Cops if they had did what your saying they did. Show me that proof.

Not sure exactly what you're asking specifically... from what I hear much of it took place at the university and various other places where protesters gathered...

But the big question is why are you splitting hairs so much... the anarchists were launching garbage cans towards the cops, other then that, the biggest message I've heard from people there was that most of the people were talking about not letting the anarchists take away from the intent...

I mean, do I have to fish out all the related news articles from each of these protests where many of them admit to the police infiltration?? I know there's more then just the one from Canada, you'd think a standard practise of infiltration of the groups that always end up violent, and that the average anarchist is a 19 year old kid that likes to drink and get high and hates the fact that there are responsibilities in life. So, you put the mentality of these youth with the mentality of a professional undercover cop that's trained to manipulate people... Do you HONESTLY believe that the cops are just there for good?? Cause even if it's never a cop that throws the first stone (although I'm sure if I REALLY tried I could show otherwise) the people that do initiate violence at most protest can at least be shown to be the 'anarchists' who are at least being influenced by police as their statndard practise would dictate.

The Cops did nothing wrong in Canad/London/ Seattle or Pittsburg you need to just stop being a moron on this. Oh what I get it now your one of those Lonny now aren't you, that explains everything :rofl:2wave:

And you need to stop this stupid denialism... Cops did nothing wrong in canada??? THE COP WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT PIRCKED UP A ROCK!!!!!! That's ON VIDEO. Did you see the other people at that protest?? Average age was like 35 if not older...

London... cops did nothing wrong?? How many did they kill that day? That newspaper boy wasn't even part of the protest and he got beat to death, so there's that one that I know of at least.

Seattle... that's the one with the 'photo-op anarchist' 50 cameras and 1 dude breaking a window... please tell me you know what 'staged' means.

Pittsburgh... I'm still trying to find all the video, but what's known so far : millitary accoustic weapon used, snatch and grab arrests, dogs attacking bystanders, teargassing bystanders...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNyV7UQJpyY"]YouTube - G20 Pittsburgh Protests - Innocent Bystanders Trapped, Attacked w/ Batons, Rubber Bullets Tear Gas[/ame]

You tell me the cops are being reasonable the whole way through that video?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48pQGdtXE_g&feature=PlayList&p=4EBAFA89C2BE64AD&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=108"]YouTube - Pittsburgh Police Dog Bites Old Lady In The Ass[/ame]

But in terms of catching the cop anarchists doing something wrong... well, it'd be stupid to do something wrong while you're being called out for being cops.
 
I could never help but laugh at those who dismiss anarchists (and the broader socialist movement, for that matter) out of hand as something beneath serious consideration. Personally, I happen to enjoy the eight-hour workday and can recognize the integral role of figures like Albert Parsons and the anti-capitalist oriented labor movement of the nineteenth century in gaining it.
 
I could never help but laugh at those who dismiss anarchists (and the broader socialist movement, for that matter) out of hand as something beneath serious consideration. Personally, I happen to enjoy the eight-hour workday and can recognize the integral role of figures like Albert Parsons and the anti-capitalist oriented labor movement of the nineteenth century in gaining it.

I don't think that anybody here is denying that it does happen, just not that the cops are provoking almost all of the violence that occurs, as is being put forth by certain conspiracy theorists...
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etv8YEqaWgA"]YouTube - G20 2009: Police Attack Students at University of Pittsburgh[/ame]

Can't we just say that paying cops to threaten/scare dissenters is coercing them to stop their rights via terrorism and have the peoples voice heard at an event for once? We have the police the keep the rowdy/peaceful in check. But how do we keep cops in check?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akwjAjcQnqM&feature=related"]YouTube - Wearechange schools Pittsburgh police on constitution @ g20 9/24/09[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k5y3fBH9Og&feature=related"]YouTube - Police State - The Militarization of the Police Force in USA[/ame]


After injecting cops with military equipment... How much equipment does it take to consider police 'military grade'?

And if cops being anonymous and not held accountable for their individual actions can we just prosecute the whole foundation?
 
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It's difficult. The original premise behind the black bloc was that anonymity would protect protesters from police retaliation, but that anonymity has lent itself to susceptibility to police infiltration. I was at City Hall during the 2007 Los Angeles May Day protests, but the anarchists who were at MacArthur Park told me that the provocation was started by a pregnant woman with a water bottle, not by anarchists, as the media thoughtlessly regurgitated. :shrug:
 
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