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Thread: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Do us all a favor and look up predatory lending. That's the crux of what really happened.
    So the people who took out the loans knowing that there was no possible way for them to pay back this money are not to blame at all?

    Funny, I haven't heard one story of a company holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to get a loan.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    There's a little thing called a Truth in Lending Statement that lenders are required to provide to mortgage applicants w/in 3 days of them making application. People can have a pretty good idea of what their monthly mortgage and their closing costs will be. This document is required. If those nimrods didn't realize that $3,600/month was going to hurt, then they're just ... well .... they're just nimrods.

    Crunch speaketh the truth about people charging up a storm to furnish their new homes. People today aren't like our parents' generation who didn't mind using a fold up card table for a dining room table until they could afford a real set. Today people want everything perfect in the first few months.

    There's a little talked about phenomenon out there in the foreclosure world that should make you sick. There are people who own a home and decide to go out and buy a new, larger home without selling their first home first. They're settled in their new digs all fat and happy, and they realize that their first house just isn't going to sell (or isn't going to sell for what they expect). So they let it foreclose. No skin off their backs. They have their current, fabulous house. They won't need to apply for another mortgage until the current foreclosure falls off their records.

    Obama had some foreclosure relief program a while ago. I can't remember the details, but I shook my head when I saw it. What the administration is either ignoring or doesn't care about is that many people do not want relief. They want the obligation to pay back gone.

    I'm looking out my back window, and there are 2 houses that went through exactly this in the past 2 years. What you think is hardship, you may find is often stupidity or sleaziness. Just do a search on the homeowner's name. You can find out easy enough if they purchased a new home prior to foreclosure on the old one.

    Cliff, no I do not think the situation is dire (yet). I have never bought a home I couldn't sell quickly, and I have never bought a home where I did not have at least 20% equity right out of the gate. We put 50% down on this house, and that's not because we're rich. It's because we were smart money managers.
    Last edited by StandUpChuck; 09-25-09 at 05:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    You guys are weird.

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So the people who took out the loans knowing that there was no possible way for them to pay back this money are not to blame at all?

    Funny, I haven't heard one story of a company holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to get a loan.
    The people who loaned the money did so, knowing full well that it would mostly likely be defaulted. The just passed the burden onto someone else, and made profits by doing so.

    And, if someone on welfare has asked you to borrow $1000, would you?
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    The people who loaned the money did so, knowing full well that it would mostly likely be defaulted. The just passed the burden onto someone else, and made profits by doing so.

    And, if someone on welfare has asked you to borrow $1000, would you?
    Many lenders had no choice. The market was booming, so the money was there. The gov't made it their business to make sure lenders were making loans to lower income people.
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    You guys are weird.

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    Quote Originally Posted by StandUpChuck View Post
    There's a little thing called a Truth in Lending Statement that lenders are required to provide to mortgage applicants w/in 3 days of them making application. People can have a pretty good idea of what their monthly mortgage and their closing costs will be. This document is required. If those nimrods didn't realize that $3,600/month was going to hurt, then they're just ... well .... they're just nimrods.

    Crunch speaketh the truth about people charging up a storm to furnish their new homes. People today aren't like our parents' generation who didn't mind using a fold up card table for a dining room table until they could afford a real set. Today people want everything perfect in the first few months.

    There's a little talked about phenomenon out there in the foreclosure world that should make you sick. There are people who own a home and decide to go out and buy a new, larger home without selling their first home first. They're settled in their new digs all fat and happy, and they realize that their first house just isn't going to sell (or isn't going to sell for what they expect). So they let it foreclose. No skin off their backs. They have their current, fabulous house. They won't need to apply for another mortgage until the current foreclosure falls off their records.

    Obama had some foreclosure relief program a while ago. I can't remember the details, but I shook my head when I saw it. What the administration is either ignoring or doesn't care about is that many people do not want relief. They want the obligation to pay back gone.

    I'm looking out my back window, and there are 2 houses that went through exactly this in the past 2 years. What you think is hardship, you may find is often stupidity or sleaziness. Just do a search on the homeowner's name. You can find out easy enough if they purchased a new home prior to foreclosure on the old one.

    Cliff, no I do not think the situation is dire (yet). I have never bought a home I couldn't sell quickly, and I have never bought a home where I did not have at least 20% equity right out of the gate. We put 50% down on this house, and that's not because we're rich. It's because we were smart money managers.
    Chuck, people were told to exaggerate and lie on their applications. By who? THE LENDERS.
    Last edited by Middleground; 09-25-09 at 05:30 PM.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Chuck, people were told to exaggerate and lie on their applications. By who? THE LENDERS.
    So the people taking out the loans are not at fault for going along with it?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Chuck, people were told to exxagerate and lie on their applications. By who? THE LENDERS.
    Well, I'd like to see proof of that, but even so, let me turn this back onto you the way you did a few posts ago. If someone tells you to lie on an application, are you going to do it? I sure as hell wouldn't.

    Either way, that doesn't refute what I posted. Let's say that the evil bankers told the applicants to lie. What did the applicants think when they saw their TIL? When they saw what their estimated monthly payments were going to be, they had plenty of time to back out. They just didn't want to do it because to hell with the bank. They felt entitled to a 4 bedroom house with a 3 car garage. And chances are, they got to stay in the house free of charge for at least 9 months after that.
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    You guys are weird.

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    Quote Originally Posted by StandUpChuck View Post
    Well, I'd like to see proof of that, but even so, let me turn this back onto you the way you did a few posts ago. If someone tells you to lie on an application, are you going to do it? I sure as hell wouldn't.

    Either way, that doesn't refute what I posted. Let's say that the evil bankers told the applicants to lie. What did the applicants think when they saw their TIL? When they saw what their estimated monthly payments were going to be, they had plenty of time to back out. They just didn't want to do it because to hell with the bank. They felt entitled to a 4 bedroom house with a 3 car garage. And chances are, they got to stay in the house free of charge for at least 9 months after that.
    Stated-income loans making a comeback

    The number of applications for stated-income loans soared as brokers began signing clients up for no-doc loans even if they had regular jobs and could fully document their income with W-2 forms.

    Why?

    It allowed them to inflate their client’s income, and that was the only way those clients could qualify for a loan that was big enough to buy the house they wanted.

    When hundreds of thousands of these “liar loans” began to default in 2007, lenders discontinued their stated-income mortgage programs.

    Two years later some small to medium-sized banks are tiptoeing back into the market.
    Around the first of the year, there where numerous news specials and articles on these stated-income loans, and how they where abused by both the lender and the borrower. The practice at some places was for the lender to say that to qualify for the loan, they needed to state they had X annual income on the form, and to specifically mention that no one would check their income.

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    it's called subprime

    and you can blame anyone you want, you can talk about how wonderfully better off YOU may be

    but out there in the big world, obama's the one who's gonna take the heat

    because, as stand up chuck conceded, there's no bottom yet in sight

    and as the stand up guy also pointed out, under obama we're continuing many of the same practices that got us all collectively in this mess in the first place

    obama's president

    no one ever said politics was fair

    actually, in this case, it probably is

    fix the economy, mr president, or you and your party are dead
    Last edited by The Prof; 09-25-09 at 07:20 PM.

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    Re: Home Sales Decline Unexpectedly

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    it's called subprime

    and you can blame anyone you want, you can talk about how wonderfully better off YOU may be

    but out there in the big world, obama's the one who's gonna take the heat

    because, as stand up chuck conceded, there's no bottom yet in sight

    and as the stand up guy also pointed out, under obama we're continuing many of the same practices that got us all collectively in this mess in the first place

    obama's president

    no one ever said politics was fair

    actually, in this case, it probably is

    fix the economy, mr president, or you and your party are dead
    I didn't concede anything about the bottom being in sight or not. I only said you'll know it when things start to swing upward again.

    I am a woman.

    I did not blame Obama though he is not helping the situation much (except the tax incentive for First Time Home Buyers).
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    You guys are weird.

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