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Germany Will Walk Out of U.N. if Ahmadinejad Denies Holocaust

75Greeno said:
this is kind of strange but it is good that germany is holding up to what they did and not dening that it happend
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I don't see why Germany should still be held accountable and get the blame for the Holocaust.
Even if Germany did not walk out, it shouldn't make a difference imo

I do not see the point of walking out, it gives the man more headlines and attention than he deserves
 
Birdzeye said:
Actually, I think that showing up for the speech, and then walking out in the middle of it, would send a stronger message than just not showing up.
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I disagree because it allows him to play the game. He was spewing all manner of holocaust denying b.s. just yesterday. So what if today he stands up and doesn't repeat that nonsense but instead goes on about other stuff and has an audience sitting there giving him credibility and the appearance that he is a respected leader worth listening too? He is not respectable, he deserves no audience. They shouldn't pander to him by even bothering to give him an ear at all.
 
Laila said:
I don't see why Germany should still be held accountable and get the blame for the Holocaust.
Even if Germany did not walk out, it shouldn't make a difference imo

I do not see the point of walking out, it gives the man more headlines and attention than he deserves
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it is good that they are still taking resposiblity for it and if they didnt the world would think that they still would do it why do you think the US puts down the salvery and still takes responsibility or even puting the native americans on reservations
 
PeteEU said:
US elections have been transmitted to other countries in a very short time period. Most countries transmitted it on national channels during the night during the late 1980s and 1990s, but in the late 1990s satellite TV news channels started to pop up and the 1996 and 2000 election were the first two fully globally watched elections and what a whopper people got to watch in 2000.. week after week after week..

Hence the perception many people had that the US had a near perfect democracy and election system was shattered because of what they saw on TV. Dont blame me for what they saw, it is your election system and elections, and yes facts are facts on what happened in 2000. We all saw and heard it.
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My perception that Europe was perfect was shattered when I saw on TV that the EU couldn't agree on a constitution for several years. Guess they lost their moral compass!
 
Orius said:
Um, anyway...

I think walking out would be a mistake. Ahmadinejad is just doing it to be inflammatory, I don't think he genuinely even believes his own words. Most of his political career has been spent firing pot shots at Western nations in order to garner support from the radical right in Iran. Being a holocaust denier just fits with his usual repertoire.

If Germany walks out, or if the U.S. were to censor him, it would show that his childish tactics are so effective that diplomats will avoid a UN conference. The proper thing would be to bear it and grin, and then proceed as normal.

After all, you don't leave the bus when a ranting, mentally disturbed person enters it, do you? No. You let them have their piece, as uncomfortable as it makes you, then you go on about your life.
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I think it would say a lot more if they stayed in the room but stood up and turned their backs on him.

As to Petey's moronic ranting...I trust he'll forgive me for not really caring what a European has to say about anyone's moral compass. :lol:
 
Ikari said:
Mind your own god damned business. If you're gonna bitch and look down on us because we had a close election, then your opinion ain't worth squat and I don't care what it is. "Oh no, the United States is supposed to be perfect and all their elections should be like 100% popular vote for one guy and not the other. Oh how our world view is shattered because the US had a close election! Oh how my ideals were realistic to start with!" Pathetic. This is nothing more than dumb America bashing and trying to blame all the woes on Bush. Y'all ain't much better, you should look after your own business before thumbing your nose at the US. A close election...losing moral compass. HA. Stupid hyperpartisanship and nothing more. Your opinion is worthless, mind your own Ps and Qs.
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Gezz, talk about being over sensitive and twisting what I not only said but meant.. forget it not worth the aggravation.
 
PeteEU said:
Gezz, talk about being over sensitive and twisting what I not only said but meant.. forget it not worth the aggravation.
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No, you just caught me on a day when I have an extremely low tolerance for stupid.
 
Coronado said:
My perception that Europe was perfect was shattered when I saw on TV that the EU couldn't agree on a constitution for several years. Guess they lost their moral compass!
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We never had one.. so how could we lose it? And at least we can count our votes....
 
jallman said:
I think it would say a lot more if they stayed in the room but stood up and turned their backs on him.

As to Petey's moronic ranting...I trust he'll forgive me for not really caring what a European has to say about anyone's moral compass. :lol:
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Turning their backs on him would be awesome. But it should be done from the beginning; the start. He already blabbered a bunch of nonsense yesterday in sheer anticipation of gaining an audience today. If he were a smart man he'd stay away from the denials today so nobody had anything in his speech to react rudely too. If he were to actually carry that off it makes him look legit and respectable. He blew that yesterday! He deserves no second chance. They should turn their backs as soon as he says, "Greetings..."
 
75Greeno said:
it is good that they are still taking resposiblity for it and if they didnt the world would think that they still would do it why do you think the US puts down the salvery and still takes responsibility or even puting the native americans on reservations
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'Taking responsibility'?
Those responsible are dead. The generation who lived through the Holocaust and world wars are slowly dying.

The world would not think they would 'do it'
I personally think when the last holocaust survivor dies. Germany should draw a line under it and move on. I do not understand this 'guilt' Germany has.
 
talloulou said:
Ahmadinejad does not deserve an audience. He has lost his right to be taken seriously. Not only would I applaud them walking out on his speech but I'd respect folks just not showing up to hear him in the first place. He's a joke of a leader with zero credibility. Why even bother feigning interest in what he has to say at all? Why even attempt to put on a show of legitimacy for appearances sake? Why does it even matter if he says it today, when he has said it pointedly and clearly yesterday and obviously gets off on the emotional anger it creates? Walking out on him would be cool. Not showing up or sticking around to even hear him utter one word would be even better.
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I agree with you in principle, I really do... it's just, when the world ignores crazy leaders, they tend to gain more momentum. When diplomats get angry, they do something about it. Simply not being there is bad form, in my opinion, and I'm disappointed that my own country's diplomats are not attending. So what happens then? All you are left with are the few neutral people who don't applaud or leave, and then people who support him. It just doesn't look good.

It's not about giving him legitimacy. It's about witnessing the rise of a mad man, and we should all be aware of it, especially if it makes us angry.
 
PeteEU said:
We never had one.. so how could we lose it? And at least we can count our votes....
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At least we have our sovereignty as a nation unless you EU drones that used to be great nations.
 
Laila said:
'Taking responsibility'?
Those responsible are dead. The generation who lived through the Holocaust and world wars are slowly dying.

The world would not think they would 'do it'
I personally think when the last holocaust survivor dies. Germany should draw a line under it and move on. I do not understand this 'guilt' Germany has.
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and i dont under stand ours it makes use even
 
jallman said:
As to Petey's moronic ranting...I trust he'll forgive me for not really caring what a European has to say about anyone's moral compass. :lol:
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What ranting.... since when is stating perceptions and facts ranting... /shrug... guess it is because it is about the US and that is some how a taboo now days on these boards.

and I trust you will forgive me if we dont care either about what the US has to say on anyone's moral compass or anything regarding morality.... which was my point.
 
PeteEU said:
What ranting.... since when is stating perceptions and facts ranting... /shrug... guess it is because it is about the US and that is some how a taboo now days on these boards.

and I trust you will forgive me if we dont care either about what the US has to say on anyone's moral compass or anything regarding morality.... which was my point.
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I never expected you to care how idiotic your mindless ranting sounds. :shrug:
 
Orius said:
I agree with you in principle, I really do... it's just, when the world ignores crazy leaders, they tend to gain more momentum. When diplomats get angry, they do something about it. Simply not being there is bad form, in my opinion, and I'm disappointed that my own country's diplomats are not attending. So what happens then? All you are left with are the few neutral people who don't applaud or leave, and then people who support him. It just doesn't look good.

It's not about giving him legitimacy. It's about witnessing the rise of a mad man, and we should all be aware of it, especially if it makes us angry.
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He needs to be mocked, shunned, embarrassed, and shamed so his people are completely 100% aware that they have a joke of a man representing them on the worldwide stage. There should be no video where it appears we are respecting him, even briefly. None.
 
PeteEU said:
We never had one.. so how could we lose it? And at least we can count our votes....
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Then you shouldn't have much problem explaining what we "should" have done here.
 
PeteEU said:
We never had one.. so how could we lose it? And at least we can count our votes....
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Oh yeah.
EU really is just brilliant.

I mean the citizens reject the constitution and the bureaucrats shove it through under a different name so sure that us stupid common folk have no "real" understanding of it and how we must be wrong in rejecting it :roll:
 
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talloulou said:
He needs to be mocked, shunned, embarrassed, and shamed so his people are completely 100% aware that they have a joke of a man representing them on the worldwide stage. There should be no video where it appears we are respecting him, even briefly. None.
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Won't ever happen. If it did, the "story" would be about the mocking, and the ugly things he says will get lost.
 
I kinda think this whole holocaust denial thing is overblown. Does it really matter if some people deny it? It was a horrible event, it has tons of documentation, we know it happened. Those who deny it are idiots, and well there is no law against that (or rather, should not be a law against that. Some countries want thought control and will make denying the holocaust illegal).

As for walking out on him, I understand the Germans are sensitive about the issue; but it's time to get over it. The UN, despite my negative attitudes about it, is supposed to foster diplomacy so that we don't have to go to war so often (opps). Walking out, especially in mass, may have the opposite effect. It sucks, but so does theocracy and the lesson of Iran should be don't have crazy religious jerks in charge.
 
talloulou said:
I disagree because it allows him to play the game. He was spewing all manner of holocaust denying b.s. just yesterday. So what if today he stands up and doesn't repeat that nonsense but instead goes on about other stuff and has an audience sitting there giving him credibility and the appearance that he is a respected leader worth listening too? He is not respectable, he deserves no audience. They shouldn't pander to him by even bothering to give him an ear at all.
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To some extent, I agree with you. However, I'm assuming that his speech is not the only item on the agenda. I'd think that delegates would want to be present for the rest of the session. I think they could attend, and then walk out the minute the madman starts his tirade, I mean, speech, and return when that's over.
 
talloulou said:
He needs to be mocked, shunned, embarrassed, and shamed so his people are completely 100% aware that they have a joke of a man representing them on the worldwide stage. There should be no video where it appears we are respecting him, even briefly. None.
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Iran's state media is controlled. They will never see the walkout unless they can access Youtube or some other independent source. I think youtube may be blocked there, actually, along with Facebook.
 
Laila said:
Oh yeah.
EU really is just brilliant.

I mean the citizens reject the constitution and the bureaucrats shove it through under a different name so sure that us stupid common folk have no "real" understanding of it and how we must be wrong in rejecting it :roll:
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Was talking more about all elections in Europe.. not only the EU ones :) And it was not I who brought up the EU aspect. And remember where I am from Laila.. we wrote the freaking book on rejecting the EU and it aint something I am proud off. A no means a no, regardless of what side you are on. But again, we know how to count votes over here.. :2wave: even in close elections...
 
talloulou said:
He needs to be mocked, shunned, embarrassed, and shamed so his people are completely 100% aware that they have a joke of a man representing them on the worldwide stage. There should be no video where it appears we are respecting him, even briefly. None.
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After seeing his gracious [sarcasm alert] reaction to the protests after the last Iranian election, I doubt that the Iranian press is free enough to let the people know that their dear [more sarcasm alert] leader has been mocked etc.
 
But back to topic.

Kudos to Germany if they do it.

Then again, more of such political action should happen and not only against Iran.
 
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