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Thread: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I did answer.
    FEMA did what it was supposed to do, about as well as it could be expected to do it, given the size and scope of the disaster. The vast majority of the emergency management failures were at the state and local level.
    "The agency dispatched only 7 of its 28 urban search and rescue teams to the area before the storm hit and sent no workers at all into New Orleans until after the hurricane passed on Monday, Aug. 29."

    "Rather than initiate relief efforts — buses, food, troops, diesel fuel, rescue boats — the agency waited for specific requests from state and local officials."

    "Hundreds of firefighters, who responded to a nationwide call for help in the disaster, were held by the federal agency in Atlanta for days of training on community relations and sexual harassment before being sent on to the devastated area."

    "FEMA would not let the trucks unload," Mr. Vines said in an interview. "The drivers were stuck for several days on the side of the road about 10 miles from Camp Beauregard. FEMA said we had to have a 'tasker number.' What in the world is a tasker number? I have no idea. It's just paperwork, and it's ridiculous."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/na...pagewanted=all

    "FEMA had already stockpiled for immediate distribution 2.7 million liters of water, 1.3 million meals ready to eat and 17 million pounds of ice, a Department of Homeland Security official said. But Louisiana received a relatively small portion of the supplies; for example, Alabama got more than five times as much water for distribution. 'It was what they would move for a normal hurricane — business as usual versus a superstorm,' concluded Mark Ghilarducci, a former FEMA official now working as a consultant for Blanco."

    "Around midnight, at the last of the day's many conference calls, local officials ticked off their final requests for FEMA and the state. Maestri specifically asked for medical units, mortuary units, ice, water, power and National Guard troops. 'We laid it all out,' he recalled. 'And then we sat here for five days waiting. Nothing!'""

    "'We were all watching the evacuation,' Maj. Gen. Richard Rowe, Northcom's top operations officer, recalled. 'We knew that it would be among the worst storms ever to hit the United States.' But on Monday, the only request the U.S. military received from FEMA was for a half-dozen helicopters."

    "On Thursday, after FEMA took over the evacuation, aviation director Roy A. Williams complained that 'we are packed with evacuees and the planes are not being loaded and there are gaps of two or three hours when no planes are arriving.' Eventually, he started fielding 'calls from airlines saying, "Well, we are being told by FEMA that you don't need any planes." And of course we need planes. I had thousands of people on the concourses.'"
    The Steady Buildup to a City's Chaos

    That enough of a start for ways FEMA failed? I mean, does this surprise anyone, seeing as the head of FEMA had no background in disaster management?
    Last edited by the makeout hobo; 09-29-09 at 03:53 PM.
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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    That enough of a start for ways FEMA failed? I mean, does this surprise anyone, seeing as the head of FEMA had no background in disaster management?
    Not sure how any of this negates anything in my response.

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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not sure how any of this negates anything in my response.
    That doesn't, everything else I posted does.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    That doesn't, everything else I posted does.
    I said:

    FEMA did what it was supposed to do, about as well as it could be expected to do it, given the size and scope of the disaster.
    What did you post that negates that assertion?
    Especially given that YOU said "I mean, does this surprise anyone, seeing as the head of FEMA had no background in disaster management"

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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    I posted

    "The agency dispatched only 7 of its 28 urban search and rescue teams to the area before the storm hit and sent no workers at all into New Orleans until after the hurricane passed on Monday, Aug. 29."

    "Rather than initiate relief efforts buses, food, troops, diesel fuel, rescue boats the agency waited for specific requests from state and local officials."

    "Hundreds of firefighters, who responded to a nationwide call for help in the disaster, were held by the federal agency in Atlanta for days of training on community relations and sexual harassment before being sent on to the devastated area."

    "FEMA would not let the trucks unload," Mr. Vines said in an interview. "The drivers were stuck for several days on the side of the road about 10 miles from Camp Beauregard. FEMA said we had to have a 'tasker number.' What in the world is a tasker number? I have no idea. It's just paperwork, and it's ridiculous."

    "FEMA had already stockpiled for immediate distribution 2.7 million liters of water, 1.3 million meals ready to eat and 17 million pounds of ice, a Department of Homeland Security official said. But Louisiana received a relatively small portion of the supplies; for example, Alabama got more than five times as much water for distribution. 'It was what they would move for a normal hurricane business as usual versus a superstorm,' concluded Mark Ghilarducci, a former FEMA official now working as a consultant for Blanco."

    "Around midnight, at the last of the day's many conference calls, local officials ticked off their final requests for FEMA and the state. Maestri specifically asked for medical units, mortuary units, ice, water, power and National Guard troops. 'We laid it all out,' he recalled. 'And then we sat here for five days waiting. Nothing!'""

    "'We were all watching the evacuation,' Maj. Gen. Richard Rowe, Northcom's top operations officer, recalled. 'We knew that it would be among the worst storms ever to hit the United States.' But on Monday, the only request the U.S. military received from FEMA was for a half-dozen helicopters."

    "On Thursday, after FEMA took over the evacuation, aviation director Roy A. Williams complained that 'we are packed with evacuees and the planes are not being loaded and there are gaps of two or three hours when no planes are arriving.' Eventually, he started fielding 'calls from airlines saying, "Well, we are being told by FEMA that you don't need any planes." And of course we need planes. I had thousands of people on the concourses.'"


    All ways FEMA failed.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I posted
    I saw what you posted, the first time you posted it.

    None of these (perceived and ancedotal) "failures" in any way indicates that FEMA did NOT do what it was supposed to do, about as well as it could be expected to do it, given the size and scope of the disaster.

    Unless, of course, you want to argue that, regardless of circumstance, FEMA should do -everything- right and make -no- mistakes, systemically or individually.

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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I saw what you posted, the first time you posted it.

    None of these (perceived and ancedotal) "failures" in any way indicates that FEMA did NOT do what it was supposed to do, about as well as it could be expected to do it, given the size and scope of the disaster.

    Unless, of course, you want to argue that, regardless of circumstance, FEMA should do -everything- right and make -no- mistakes, systemically or individually.
    So you think it's no big deal that FEMA could have sent out more SAR teams and didn't, or that they waited for state and local orders before taking initiative? Or that they focused on pointless training instead of sending firefighters where they needed to be? Or that they put in pointless bureaucracy? Or that they didn't effectively distribute supplies? Or that they ignored requests? Or that they didn't request enough from the military?

    I see lots of very big mistakes here, ones that are not excusable.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I see lots of very big mistakes here, ones that are not excusable.
    That's your opinion. So...?

    As I said:

    Unless you want to argue that, regardless of circumstance, FEMA should do -everything- right and make -no- mistakes, systemically or individually, your citation of ancedotes doesnt in any way indicate that FEMA did NOT do what it was supposed to do, about as well as it could be expected to do it, given the size and scope of the disaster.

    You do agree that no organization the size of FEMA faced with a disaster the size of Katrina could possibly to EVERYTHING right -- right?

  9. #39
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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That's your opinion. So...?

    As I said:

    Unless you want to argue that, regardless of circumstance, FEMA should do -everything- right and make -no- mistakes, systemically or individually, your citation of ancedotes doesnt in any way indicate that FEMA did NOT do what it was supposed to do, about as well as it could be expected to do it, given the size and scope of the disaster.

    You do agree that no organization the size of FEMA faced with a disaster the size of Katrina could possibly to EVERYTHING right -- right?
    Let me ask you, what would you have seen as an unacceptable failure on FEMA's side?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Death toll rises to 8 in Southeast floods

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Let me ask you, what would you have seen as an unacceptable failure on FEMA's side?
    I'm sorry -- I asked YOU:
    You do agree that no organization the size of FEMA faced with a disaster the size of Katrina could possibly to EVERYTHING right -- right?

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