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California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

Oftencold

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By Alana Semuels
September 19, 2009


From the LA Times
California's jobless rate set a fresh postwar high in August, rising to 12.2% from 11.9% in July and putting more pressure on the state's tattered unemployment insurance fund.

Though the state may be in the early stages of an economic rebound, the latest figures underscore what many economists fear: There is no obvious engine of job growth to put California's more than 2.2 million unemployed residents back to work quickly.​
ARTICLE: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August -- latimes.com

Well, the Stimulus package sure helped there!
 
I bet it would be much lower if they kicked out all those illegal aliens in California.
 
I wonder how they're feeling about all that jobless recovery.
 
I bet it would be much lower if they kicked out all those illegal aliens in California.

Do explain, i am interested in this sort of thing:2razz:
 
Fewer people to compete with for the existing jobs. It's ain't rocket science.

Well, before you go that far you have to consider something. What causes firms to demand foreign, more specifically illegal foreign labor?
 
Well, before you go that far you have to consider something. What causes firms to demand foreign, more specifically illegal foreign labor?

They get cheap labor that doesn't ask for raises, nor bennies and illegal aliens don't sue for getting hurt on the job.
 
They get cheap labor that doesn't ask for raises, nor bennies and illegal aliens don't sue for getting hurt on the job.

Interesting! So it is not really the presence of illegal aliens, but is instead the existence of policies that shift specific aspects of demand for labor.
 
Interesting! So it is not really the presence of illegal aliens, but is instead the existence of policies that shift specific aspects of demand for labor.

There are no policies. It is illegal to hire illegal immigrants, period.
 
Well, before you go that far you have to consider something. What causes firms to demand foreign, more specifically illegal foreign labor?
They are breaking the law, if those people were citizens they couldn't pay them so low. Pretty simple.
 
Interesting! So it is not really the presence of illegal aliens, but is instead the existence of policies that shift specific aspects of demand for labor.

It's illegal to hire illegal aliens. The law, on both ends of the issue, should be enforced.
 
There are no policies. It is illegal to hire illegal immigrants, period.

No doubt about it. Regardless, the practice does exist, and for a reason no less. Therefore, it might serve us better to look at the cause, instead of the symptom.

Low skilled labor faces competition not only from the illegal alien, but from the exuberant welfare benefits that result in higher taxes.
 
No doubt about it. Regardless, the practice does exist, and for a reason no less. Therefore, it might serve us better to look at the cause, instead of the symptom.

We should be doing something about both problems.
 
I saw a follow-up report about the firms where the government did the raids to find and deport illegal alien employees.

They found that all those jobs had been replaced by legal citizens and their was wage increases (8% if I recall correctly).
 
I saw a follow-up report about the firms where the government did the raids to find and deport illegal alien employees.

They found that all those jobs had been replaced by legal citizens and their was wage increases (8% if I recall correctly).

Do you care to provide a link so that we can further analyze, based on the specific industry, number of workers found to be illegal, and the wage paid to both the illegal workers and the new legal workers (of which would need to be 8% more)?

Or at the very least, give a name to this source.
 
Do you care to provide a link so that we can further analyze, based on the specific industry, number of workers found to be illegal, and the wage paid to both the illegal workers and the new legal workers (of which would need to be 8% more)?

Or at the very least, give a name to this source.

I saw it on Foxnews about a week ago. So, I can't really give any more details, but by doing a fast search on yahoo:

Immigration raids yield jobs for legal workers - USATODAY.com

She said wages did not plummet in recent decades because of immigrants undercutting Americans, but because employers took advantage of the immigrant population fearful of seeking help from authorities.

"If you've got a segment of the workforce that's afraid to speak out against violations of their labor rights, then that drags down wages and working conditions for all workers," Singley said.
 
Well, the Stimulus package sure helped there!

That comment shows a pretty limited understanding of the stimulus package, unemployment causes and effects, the California economy, economics...

Basically all the important information in the article, you don't comprehend.:2wave:
 
Fewer people to compete with for the existing jobs. It's ain't rocket science.

Can you show that illegals compete with Americans for jobs that Americans are trying to get and in industries that serve as engines of growth?

Last I checked, there aren't illegals taking programming jobs away from Americans, but I could be wrong. Does Google hire lots of illegals? :confused:
 
Can you show that illegals compete with Americans for jobs that Americans are trying to get and in industries that serve as engines of growth?

Last I checked, there aren't illegals taking programming jobs away from Americans, but I could be wrong. Does Google hire lots of illegals? :confused:

Feds: Immigration raids stimulate job growth -- DailyFinance

ommonly accepted wisdom states that, as things currently stand, immigrants fill jobs that most native-born American workers don't want. However, a report by the Center for Immigration Studies recently found that, when the feds come banging on the door of a factory, net new jobs are created. According to the study, immigration raids neither cripple a factory nor result in the return of illegal labor. In fact, the center says that the raided plants were up and running again -- with full staffs -- within months, and most of the positions occupied by illegal immigrants were staffed with legal employees.

The exact composition of the post-raid workforce varies by region. In the western portion of the country, a raid on a plant that had a workforce comprised mostly of Hispanic employees (90 percent), the undocumented employees were replaced mostly by U.S.-born Hispanics and white employees. In North Carolina, however, a facility whose workforce was 80 percent Hispanic before an investigation saw illegal employees replaced mostly by African-American employees, who now comprise 70 percent of the company's employee base. In the Great Plains states, a growing number of Sudanese, Somalis and Southeast Asian immigrants are finding positions at food-processing plants.
 
That comment shows a pretty limited understanding of the stimulus package, unemployment causes and effects, the California economy, economics...

Basically all the important information in the article, you don't comprehend.:2wave:

Funny, I would have said exactly the same thing of someone who thought that the stimulus was money well spent.
 
Can you show that illegals compete with Americans for jobs that Americans are trying to get and in industries that serve as engines of growth?

Last I checked, there aren't illegals taking programming jobs away from Americans, but I could be wrong. Does Google hire lots of illegals? :confused:

This is an important point.

I am hearing arguments based on the premise of higher wages for jobs that would be within the competitive realm of illegal aliens within the United States. It cracks me up because they have gone as far as to blame illegal immigration for higher unemployment. There is a clear example of causation in regards to negative economic growth and unemployment.

I have very little doubt that the economy has not only grown, in real terms, but so has the percentage of our workforce comprised of illegal aliens.

Saying that illegal immigration has increased unemployment is equally stating it results in a decrease in economic growth. :thinking Quite a strong statement considering the actual effect of this form of labor practice.

If the cost of doing service (j) from firm (A) decreases, that would also imply that quantity demanded increases as a natural result of lower prices.

Not to be left out, low prices can sometimes (depending on normalcy) create: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_effect"]income effect[/ame]
 
Feds: Immigration raids stimulate job growth -- DailyFinance

You left out this part:

Thus, raids create jobs, but these jobs come at a price. Although employers should be paying these costs anyway, it doesn't change the fact that the increased expenses may be devastating for many companies. In the past, illegal immigrants would have returned to factory positions following an immigration raid, but a difficult labor market has changed this dynamic, with legal workers backfilling those who were not. Production costs go up, but immigration enforcement nonetheless is acting as a small stimulus program.

The part you left out though is rather damaging when you think about it. Higher costs of business reduce the total number of jobs as well as increase the cost of goods to other businesses which in turn may often cut jobs to stay competitive on price. We know for a fact that illegal labor is essentially a tax cut as it reduces the cost of goods in the market. When you raise those prices, that tax cut is effectively removed.

Furthermore, the industries aren't named so it's hard to consider if they are engines of growth. While I will give you that more Americans are hired then they were before, that does not deal with the net effect upon total jobs when you incorporate the larger picture. Imagine this. If steel workers were paid 10% and that 10% went into price, do you think that steel purchases were hire more people or less now that their raw materials cost more?

IMO, it's going to be impossible to determine the net affect without knowing the specific industry. In food processing though, I'd wager it's relatively minor effect on the total job market due to obscene subsidiaries to the agricultural industry. Having to pay $7.75 from $4 when the government is giving you billions really isn't that painful.

In the long term though, food processing is not a engine of growth.
 
Feds: Immigration raids stimulate job growth -- DailyFinance

You left out this part:



The part you left out though is rather damaging when you think about it. Higher costs of business reduce the total number of jobs as well as increase the cost of goods to other businesses which in turn may often cut jobs to stay competitive on price. We know for a fact that illegal labor is essentially a tax cut as it reduces the cost of goods in the market. When you raise those prices, that tax cut is effectively removed.

....
Just wondering, would you make that same argument concerning the USA minimum wage?

.
 
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