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Thread: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Well, no; unemployment is a rate. It doesn't have to be about negative GDP. An area may not have enough jobs for all of the immigrants, so they're unemployed, thus driving unemployment rates up.
    Increased unemployment causes decreases in GDP, or they are inversely related. You have to keep this in mind when considering unemployment (Okun's Law) . The premise they are going by is if there were no illegal aliens working in California, the unemployment rate would be lower.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    But Okun's law isn't a "law"; it's just an observed relationship.

    If you increase the worker pool without increasing the number of jobs, unemployment goes up regardless of the GDP.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    But Okun's law isn't a "law"; it's just an observed relationship.
    Does it not apply here? If not then how so?

    If you increase the worker pool without increasing the number of jobs, unemployment goes up regardless of the GDP.
    Hmmmmm.... Unemployment is the rate of which those who are actively seeking employment, within a specific time frame, cannot for some reason or another find it.

    With that in mind, what exactly is the worker pool? Is it those who are seeking employment and cannot find any, or is it those currently employed? The difference matters immensely. Of course, if the "pool" is those seeking employment and cannot find any, then of course unemployment is naturally higher. But within the perimeter of this discussion, it was the fact that illegal aliens are employed which is the perceived cause of higher unemployment.

    In fact, i would suppose that this group of people would be in favor of illegal aliens not able to find a job, and not the other way around. Do you think this increases or decreases employment?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    The "worker pool" is the total number of people who want jobs, including those who have jobs. That is what I meant by it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I wonder how they're feeling about all that jobless recovery.
    As a resident of the great Liberal state of California, I can tell you it sucks. I cannot remember a time when the job situation was this bad in California.

    Suffice it to say, the Libruls running our State have taken up the typical liberal prescription of raising taxes and making business here in the state even more expensive; they're geniuses.


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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The "worker pool" is the total number of people who want jobs, including those who have jobs. That is what I meant by it.
    In the two generic identities, where the pool of labor is represented by those who are employed (x), and those who are not employed and actively seeking employment (y), and the rate of unemployment as the ratio of (y) over (P) multiplied by 100 to give us percentage.

    P= (x)+(y) ; U= (y/P)(100), therefore in the case of increased unemployment, x would have to either be decreasing more so than y is increasing, or y would have to be increasing more so than x.

    In your original statement, you were inferring that the number of employed workers (x) were to be held constant and the pool of workers increased (sum of x and y) was to increase. Holding all else constant, the only way for unemployment to increase was for (y) (the people who cannot find a job) to increase.

    But.... Is this argument in regards to illegal aliens entering the workforce? Lets add some numbers. Assume the total pool before illegal employees equals 100, where x=95 and y=5. We have the rate of unemployment to be 5%. Now assume that 5 illegal workers join the workforce.

    If they consist if the y portion, those trying to find employment but cannot, the rate becomes 10/105 or 9.5%. This signifies that 5 illegal workers have entered the workforce (P) but could not find employment. But again, this is not the argument. The argument is this: when illegal workers get jobs, it decreases employment (or increases unemployment).

    Let us assume those 5 illegal’s find employment. You have a new ratio, y=5 as the number of people seeking but not finding has stayed the same, and P= (95+5)+5=105; (5/105)(100)= 4.76%. This negates the assumption made that when illegal immigrants find employment, the rate of unemployment increases. For it to hold true, the 5 people that were working out of the original 95 would have to be fired, thereby increasing (y) by 5, and replaced with illegal workers (outside the pool) of which nobody has discussed so far (mind boggling).

    With this in mind, what jobs do illegal aliens tend to flock to, and as a result American workers are being fired/replaced?

    Might these jobs be things that 99.99999% of American's not be interested in doing?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    I don't think measuring unemployment and how illegals affect it is this cut and dry.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I don't think measuring unemployment and how illegals affect it is this cut and dry.
    Well, since you are on the subject, how do you propose we analyze the impact of illegal immigrant's have on unemployment statistics? Surprisingly, i doubt a single sentence will be adequate.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    But again, this is not the argument. The argument is this: when illegal workers get jobs, it decreases employment (or increases unemployment).
    If that is the argument, then I agree. I'm only saying that increased numbers of people looking for work when there's a static number of jobs increases unemployment regardless of GDP.

    With this in mind, what jobs do illegal aliens tend to flock to, and as a result American workers are being fired/replaced?

    Might these jobs be things that 99.99999% of American's not be interested in doing?
    I always thought that was a stupid characterization of things.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Well, since you are on the subject, how do you propose we analyze the impact of illegal immigrant's have on unemployment statistics? Surprisingly, i doubt a single sentence will be adequate.
    I don't propose we analyze it at all. I propose we enforce the laws against people entering out country illegally, instead of making excuses for them using statistics.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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