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Thread: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

  1. #21
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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    That comment shows a pretty limited understanding of the stimulus package, unemployment causes and effects, the California economy, economics...

    Basically all the important information in the article, you don't comprehend.
    Funny, I would have said exactly the same thing of someone who thought that the stimulus was money well spent.

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Can you show that illegals compete with Americans for jobs that Americans are trying to get and in industries that serve as engines of growth?

    Last I checked, there aren't illegals taking programming jobs away from Americans, but I could be wrong. Does Google hire lots of illegals?
    This is an important point.

    I am hearing arguments based on the premise of higher wages for jobs that would be within the competitive realm of illegal aliens within the United States. It cracks me up because they have gone as far as to blame illegal immigration for higher unemployment. There is a clear example of causation in regards to negative economic growth and unemployment.

    I have very little doubt that the economy has not only grown, in real terms, but so has the percentage of our workforce comprised of illegal aliens.

    Saying that illegal immigration has increased unemployment is equally stating it results in a decrease in economic growth. Quite a strong statement considering the actual effect of this form of labor practice.

    If the cost of doing service (j) from firm (A) decreases, that would also imply that quantity demanded increases as a natural result of lower prices.

    Not to be left out, low prices can sometimes (depending on normalcy) create: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_effect"]income effect[/ame]
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    [quote=jamesrage;1058264658]Feds: Immigration raids stimulate job growth -- DailyFinance

    You left out this part:

    Thus, raids create jobs, but these jobs come at a price. Although employers should be paying these costs anyway, it doesn't change the fact that the increased expenses may be devastating for many companies. In the past, illegal immigrants would have returned to factory positions following an immigration raid, but a difficult labor market has changed this dynamic, with legal workers backfilling those who were not. Production costs go up, but immigration enforcement nonetheless is acting as a small stimulus program.
    The part you left out though is rather damaging when you think about it. Higher costs of business reduce the total number of jobs as well as increase the cost of goods to other businesses which in turn may often cut jobs to stay competitive on price. We know for a fact that illegal labor is essentially a tax cut as it reduces the cost of goods in the market. When you raise those prices, that tax cut is effectively removed.

    Furthermore, the industries aren't named so it's hard to consider if they are engines of growth. While I will give you that more Americans are hired then they were before, that does not deal with the net effect upon total jobs when you incorporate the larger picture. Imagine this. If steel workers were paid 10% and that 10% went into price, do you think that steel purchases were hire more people or less now that their raw materials cost more?

    IMO, it's going to be impossible to determine the net affect without knowing the specific industry. In food processing though, I'd wager it's relatively minor effect on the total job market due to obscene subsidiaries to the agricultural industry. Having to pay $7.75 from $4 when the government is giving you billions really isn't that painful.

    In the long term though, food processing is not a engine of growth.
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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    [quote=obvious Child;1058264721]
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Feds: Immigration raids stimulate job growth -- DailyFinance

    You left out this part:



    The part you left out though is rather damaging when you think about it. Higher costs of business reduce the total number of jobs as well as increase the cost of goods to other businesses which in turn may often cut jobs to stay competitive on price. We know for a fact that illegal labor is essentially a tax cut as it reduces the cost of goods in the market. When you raise those prices, that tax cut is effectively removed.

    ....
    Just wondering, would you make that same argument concerning the USA minimum wage?

    .

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    [quote=TOJ;1058264780]
    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Just wondering, would you make that same argument concerning the USA minimum wage?

    .
    I support minimum wage.
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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    Just wondering, would you make that same argument concerning the USA minimum wage?
    Pretty much. One benefit of removing the minimum wage (within reason) is that it gets rid of industries that we suck at even faster. When the going wage for a job is really low, people tend not to go for that job, thus removing the amount of labor demand. Eventually such an industry will decrease to the point where so little demand drives up wages necessary to get people to do that job. An equilibrium if you will.
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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Damn, we sure screwed up the 'quotes' on those.

    .

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Can you show that illegals compete with Americans for jobs that Americans are trying to get and in industries that serve as engines of growth?

    Last I checked, there aren't illegals taking programming jobs away from Americans, but I could be wrong. Does Google hire lots of illegals?
    Why must he prove this? Are you saying it's okay to break the law as long as no one is hurt?
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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why must he prove this?
    There are a few posters subscribing to the premise that illegal workers impact unemployment in a negative manner. To do so would essentially say that illegal workers in this country are a cause of negative GDP, as there is an overwhelming causation between negative GDP and increased unemployment.

    Are you saying it's okay to break the law as long as no one is hurt?
    And that is the the issue. Maybe they are breaking the law, but rest assured illegal workers are not contributing to negative unemployment (AKA negative growth). Unless of course someone can prove it. Do you feel up to the task?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: California's unemployment rate hits 12.2% in August

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    There are a few posters subscribing to the premise that illegal workers impact unemployment in a negative manner. To do so would essentially say that illegal workers in this country are a cause of negative GDP, as there is an overwhelming causation between negative GDP and increased unemployment.
    Well, no; unemployment is a rate. It doesn't have to be about negative GDP. An area may not have enough jobs for all of the immigrants, so they're unemployed, thus driving unemployment rates up.
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