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Thread: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

  1. #11
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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    This is terrific and timely. I would hope the entire original bill be squashed.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.--Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Not really, no.
    I disagree. If people can spend unlimited money, that gives way too much power to very wealthy people, businesses, and unions. It too much shuts out those who don't have much money.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I disagree. If people can spend unlimited money, that gives way too much power to very wealthy people, businesses, and unions. It too much shuts out those who don't have much money.
    How does our current system prevent this?

    If I have a few billion to burn, I create a 501(c)(4) called RightinNYC Solutions. I then give that 501(c)(4) as much as I want, and send it out there to spread my message. All I have to do is couch my message in terms of "voter education" or "issue advocacy."

    Come election season, I set up a PAC called RightinNYC Advocacy. Although this one isn't a 501(c)(4), it has the freedom to advocate for actual candidates by name. There are some funding restrictions on it, but I just use the 501(c)(4) to get out the concepts and this one to drive home the points.

    If that's not enough, I can just set up a 527 called RightinNYC Principles. I can fund this one as freely as I fund my 501(c)(4), so the donation limits don't come into play. The only restriction on this group is that I don't use a particular set of magic words in my ads. Other than that, I can do whatever I want.

    The primary effect of the current campaign finance structure is to mislead the public into believing that we've limited the impact of special interests in politics and to make it difficult for all but the obscenely wealthy to have truly free speech.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    How does our current system prevent this?

    If I have a few billion to burn, I create a 501(c)(4) called RightinNYC Solutions. I then give that 501(c)(4) as much as I want, and send it out there to spread my message. All I have to do is couch my message in terms of "voter education" or "issue advocacy."

    Come election season, I set up a PAC called RightinNYC Advocacy. Although this one isn't a 501(c)(4), it has the freedom to advocate for actual candidates by name. There are some funding restrictions on it, but I just use the 501(c)(4) to get out the concepts and this one to drive home the points.

    If that's not enough, I can just set up a 527 called RightinNYC Principles. I can fund this one as freely as I fund my 501(c)(4), so the donation limits don't come into play. The only restriction on this group is that I don't use a particular set of magic words in my ads. Other than that, I can do whatever I want.

    The primary effect of the current campaign finance structure is to mislead the public into believing that we've limited the impact of special interests in politics and to make it difficult for all but the obscenely wealthy to have truly free speech.
    I completely agree, which is why I think loopholes like those you mentioned need to be closed.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    In the days before the maturation of the World Wide Web, I might have agreed.

    But we are fortunate enough to live in an era when getting one's message out is simplicity itself.

    In other words, barring outright bribery of the voters, which is already a crime, money only has so much use in political advertising before diminishing returns are encountered.

    In the other hands, by Spenglerian fortunes on messages which are rejected by the voters, a defacto financial penalty is created for those messages. Let them waste their money until they get smarter.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 09-21-09 at 09:42 PM.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I completely agree, which is why I think loopholes like those you mentioned need to be closed.
    I believe that in order to truly close these loopholes (and not simply have them use another), we would have to infringe on first amendment rights to a degree that I'm not comfortable with.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    "The obvious implication of this statement is that this decision will somehow disproportionately benefit Republicans, because Republicans are supposedly more likely to use unspecified shady funding methods."

    The article implies nothing about shady funding methods.

    The reason it benefits the GOP is because the GOP as the bigger donors who were subject to laws limitations regarding contribution amounts.

    ( To the extent the limitations worked)

  8. #18
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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by dragondad View Post
    "The obvious implication of this statement is that this decision will somehow disproportionately benefit Republicans, because Republicans are supposedly more likely to use unspecified shady funding methods."

    The article implies nothing about shady funding methods.

    The reason it benefits the GOP is because the GOP as the bigger donors who were subject to laws limitations regarding contribution amounts.

    ( To the extent the limitations worked)
    Have any evidence to support this, or are you just making things up like the author of this article?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I believe that in order to truly close these loopholes (and not simply have them use another), we would have to infringe on first amendment rights to a degree that I'm not comfortable with.
    How is regulating money spent in politics infringing freedom of speech? Money is not speech.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Federal Appeals Court Voids Campaign Finance Reform Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Have any evidence to support this, or are you just making things up like the author of this article?
    Are you kidding me?

    Do you not know that the GOP derives a much larger proportion of their funding from wealthy donors?

    I know this does not jive with the right wing storyline that the GOP is for the "common man"....lol.

    This may come as a shock to all the right wingers on limited incomes who post here but I would think you are informed enough to know this?

    Donor demographics for the last Presidential race...http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/do...s.php?sortby=P
    Last edited by dragondad; 09-22-09 at 05:02 PM.

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