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Thread: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem of course is that not many students actually do that kind of reading, which is too bad. Those without a real interest will always do the minimum necessary to get by.
    I agree that this is true, and that's also why I believe such "students" should be failed. Too many slip through the cracks these days... the fact is that college degrees are handed out too easy. People who are unwilling to actually put any real effort into learning should go on to do something else (for both their own good & every one else's). I really don't see that happening as much as it should these days.

    Like much else these days, it seems that people expect a reward without any real effort, and our society now encourages this more than ever.
    Last edited by other; 09-17-09 at 07:31 PM.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Sorry! Just can't help it this time...

    There's just no room in a secondary school history classes for people. There's only room for events.
    People make events. I cannot imagine teaching US history without Washington, or Jefferson, or Lincoln, or Roosevelt, or even Reagan. And that is just presidents. There are a ton of people important enough to be an integral part of a public education class.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    I agree that this is true, and that's also why I believe such "students" should be failed. Too many slip through the cracks these days... the fact is that college degrees are handed out too easy. People who are unwilling to actually put any real effort into learning should go on to do something else (for both their own good & every one else's). I really don't see that happening as much as it should these days.
    College degrees I do not know about, since I dropped out after one year of college, but I do think that it would be worth it to increase High School graduation requirements.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    College degrees I do not know about, since I dropped out after one year of college, but I do think that it would be worth it to increase High School graduation requirements.
    I think it would help if they simply made college degrees less easy to obtain without actually putting forth serious effort. (not that you didn't, I don't want you to misinterpret what I'm saying...I don't know your particular circumstances)

    This would make college degrees more of a commodity, and actually increase the value of high school diplomas as well. And vocational training, which is just as vital.

    Sometimes I get the suspicion that the current system's become a racket to make state-run colleges more income. More quantity, less quality. These days, I don't think that level of education has anything at all to do with level or intelligence or capability.
    Last edited by other; 09-17-09 at 07:42 PM.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    People make events. I cannot imagine teaching US history without Washington, or Jefferson, or Lincoln, or Roosevelt, or even Reagan. And that is just presidents. There are a ton of people important enough to be an integral part of a public education class.
    People are connected to those events and are worth mention, along with teaching students what those events are and, mor importantly, why those events are important.

    Of course, when mentionaing the authoring the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson's name will undoubtedly come into the mix, the same with Abe Lincoln, when talking about the Civil War and Andrew Volstead, when talking about Prohibition. However, people who weren't connect with historically significant events don't rate a mention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    People are connected to those events and are worth mention, along with teaching students what those events are and, mor importantly, why those events are important.

    Of course, when mentionaing the authoring the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson's name will undoubtedly come into the mix, the same with Abe Lincoln, when talking about the Civil War and Andrew Volstead, when talking about Prohibition. However, people who weren't connect with historically significant events don't rate a mention.
    I think the difference between us here is that I see people driving events, while you see events driving people.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think the difference between us here is that I see people driving events, while you see events driving people.
    Events do drive people. Lincoln didn't start the Civil War. He would have never dreamed of issueing the Emancipation Proclamation, had it not been for the war. He probably wouldn't have been assassinated, if not for the war. American citizens would have never been subjected to harsh military rule, if not for Lincoln's assassination. You can talk about Lincoln being the president when the Civil War started and issueing the Emancipation Proclamation till the cows come home, but it doesn't address why these events are important historical mile-stones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Events do drive people. Lincoln didn't start the Civil War. He would have never dreamed of issueing the Emancipation Proclamation, had it not been for the war. He probably wouldn't have been assassinated, if not for the war. American citizens would have never been subjected to harsh military rule, if not for Lincoln's assassination. You can talk about Lincoln being the president when the Civil War started and issueing the Emancipation Proclamation till the cows come home, but it doesn't address why these events are important historical mile-stones.
    This is getting off topic, but the Civil war happened because of the actions of people. The Civil War was won because of the actions of Lincoln, and Grant, and numerous others.

    Both points of view are valid in their way, they are just different ways of looking at history.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This is getting off topic, but the Civil war happened because of the actions of people. The Civil War was won because of the actions of Lincoln, and Grant, and numerous others.

    Both points of view are valid in their way, they are just different ways of looking at history.
    Yes, but not because of the actions of Abraham Lincoln. When talking about the Civil War, no one even knows of John Breckinridge
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Must-know figures could change for Texas students

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I worry for this country when deciding who should be in history and social study books becomes a partisan issue.
    I think must know figures other than historical figures should include those that represent them starting with their city counselors all the way up to their governor and then senator, congressmen, vice president and president and maybe the line of succession.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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