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75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the U.S

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

dragondad said:
Here's Oklahoma's ACT scores...nearly the lowest in the Nation


ACT National and State Scores for 2009: Average ACT Scores by State
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Hey genius, districts don't make kids take the ACT or SAT. It's optional, so is the re-take. So all your drop-outs and non-college bounds in the inner city aren't taking the test. If they did, it would be a debacle.

My sister teaches at an inner city school. It's a ****ing zoo.

Your assertion that all the dumb kids live in Red States like Oklahoma is flat wrong. The fact is that the wealthier the school district, the better the scores. So, find out which school districts have the highest # of free and reduced lunches and that will pretty much clue you in on their academic pedigree. The political affiliation of the majority of the citizens of the state has nothing to do with it.
 
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

apdst said:
United States history started on 10 November 1775.
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I think many would disagree that the birth of the Marine Corps was the day that history started for the United States.
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Most Americans I meet think that Ben Franklin was a President of the US. We are so well educated!
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

they didn't call Iraq Iran, they stuck EGYPT in there
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Panache said:
Even fewer seem to know who the first Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico was. Its a sad state of affairs I tell you.:(
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Coronado said:
His-Imperial-Majesty-Emperor-Norton-I-portrait-crop.jpg
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Being not only a native Californian, but a former resident of "Baghdad By The Bay", I of course know who His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Norton I is.
 
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

RightinNYC said:
MSNBC makes a 1 letter mistake = understandable gaffe, no problem.
Fox makes a 1 letter mistake = OMG so dumbz!
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:doh Oh dear.......go and look at the map again - it isn't a one letter mistake.

Iran is labeled perfectly correctly

OMG so dumbz indeed!
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Fiddytree said:
Why?

If you screw up someone's name like that, I could say it "denotes a lack of racial sensitivity" and that it "takes actual effort to mislabel a name to the severity of a racial slur".

Both are typos, yet to suit our silly purposes we grant such likely simple errors immense amounts of power. How often have you done something similar with regard to Iran or Iraq or any other object or word with similar spellings? I bet it was often enough.
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errrr....let me give you a hint - Where is Egypt?
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

emdash said:
they didn't call Iraq Iran, they stuck EGYPT in there
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Ooops - sorry. didn't see this before posting

Glad to see somebody picked this up
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

monkeyloveafight said:
:doh Oh dear.......go and look at the map again - it isn't a one letter mistake.

Iran is labeled perfectly correctly

OMG so dumbz indeed!
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Completely true. I've seen that picture before so I didn't bother to do more than glance at it this time, and just went from there.

FWIW, Pogue was the one who started us on the path to looking like dumbasses. :2razz:
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Nate Silver uses this poll as part of his takedown of this pollster. There's more than one article about Strategic Vision, LLC (which is apparently not the same as another, more reputable Strategic Vision something else, maybe Corp?), but this one is relevant to this thread:


Are Oklahoma Students Really This Dumb? Or Is Strategic Vision Really This Stupid?
by Nate Silver @ 8:26 PM


(snip ... )

Only 2.8 percent of Oklahoma's high school students passed the test, claim OCPA and Strategic Vision, which is defined by having gotten at least 6 of the 10 answers right. Moreover, the results to some particular questions were strikingly low. Ostensibly, only 23 percent of the students correctly identified George Washington as the first President, and only 43 percent correctly named the Democrats and Republicans as the two major political parties (11 percent of the students, COPA and Strategic Vision claim, provided the answer "Communist and Republican").

For me, some of these results don't pass the smell test. I agree that public schooling in the United States needs to be improved, particularly in the areas of government and citizenship. But only 23 percent of high school students in Oklahoma knew that George Washington was the first President? Really? I have difficulty accepting that claim at face value. In 2008, 68 percent of Oklahoma fifth graders passed the Oklahoma Core Curriculum Social Studies Test. You can read some of the questions on that test beginning on page 50 of this PDF; they're generally quite a bit more difficult than the ones that Strategic Vision asks. (For instance, "Which was the most profitable export of the Jamestown settlement?" and "Which group would most likely agree with ideas presented in Common Sense?"). So either those smart fifth graders were really forgetful by the time they got to high school, or there's something very wrong with this poll.

more ...

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Are Oklahoma Students Really This Dumb? Or Is Strategic Vision Really This Stupid?
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

EgoffTib said:
I think you are missing the point... people **** with pollsters. Then people, such as the OP, actually take these results seriously. I find it hard to believe that any high school student without a mental disorder thinks that our current President was also our first President. :doh
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Looks like EgoffTib was the only poster in the thread with any common sense! These results are f'ing CRAZY. I hope no state in the country has students, or adults, this dumb.

Well, except for Jay Leno's Jay Walking citizens. :shock:



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75Greeno said:
where is this statistic coming from it just sounds like a lie:confused:
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sazerac said:
We'd have laughed at these questions by 5th or 6th grade.

But so would my nephews who are in high school. I think most students know who the first president was.
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I take it back 75Greeno and sazerac were onto something fishy too ... :2wave:
 
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

jackalope said:
Nate Silver uses this poll as part of his takedown of this pollster. There's more than one article about Strategic Vision, LLC (which is apparently not the same as another, more reputable Strategic Vision something else, maybe Corp?), but this one is relevant to this thread:
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For me, some of these results don't pass the smell test. I agree that public schooling in the United States needs to be improved, particularly in the areas of government and citizenship. But only 23 percent of high school students in Oklahoma knew that George Washington was the first President? Really? I have difficulty accepting that claim at face value. In 2008, 68 percent of Oklahoma fifth graders passed the Oklahoma Core Curriculum Social Studies Test. You can read some of the questions on that test beginning on page 50 of this PDF; they're generally quite a bit more difficult than the ones that Strategic Vision asks. (For instance, "Which was the most profitable export of the Jamestown settlement?" and "Which group would most likely agree with ideas presented in Common Sense?"). So either those smart fifth graders were really forgetful by the time they got to high school, or there's something very wrong with this poll.
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I think he's strongly implying that the answer to this question is the latter...but I don't see why one should assume that. Is his first hypothesis (which he presumably made sarcastically) - that those smart fifth graders were really forgetful by the time they got to high school - really so implausible? That makes perfect sense to me. Younger kids are more receptive to learning than older kids. For most people, their interest in their own education declines with age.

Has anyone here ever watched "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?" It's very sad. The idea that fifth graders could pass their social studies exams, and high schoolers wouldn't know George Washington was the first president, does not seem all that implausible to me.
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Kandahar said:
I think he's strongly implying that the answer to this question is the latter...but I don't see why one should assume that. Is his first hypothesis (which he presumably made sarcastically) - that those smart fifth graders were really forgetful by the time they got to high school - really so implausible? That makes perfect sense to me. Younger kids are more receptive to learning than older kids. For most people, their interest in their own education declines with age.

Has anyone here ever watched "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?" It's very sad. The idea that fifth graders could pass their social studies exams, and high schoolers wouldn't know George Washington was the first president, does not seem all that implausible to me.
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Nate Silver actually has a number of articles on this pollster out. The pollster was given a letter of censure by the professional association of pollsters. In one of them, he goes through more in-depth reasons why this poll stretches the boundaries of the imagination. One of the reasons that sticks out to me is that there wasn't a single OK student respondent who even got 8 answers correct, never mind all of them. He said something like, isn't there a single AP History student, or really smart nerd, anywhere in the poll sample?

Here's the first article. You can follow links in the article to source material:


A Few More Questions for a Sketchy Pollster
by Nate Silver @ 3:05 PM
Bookmark and Share Share This Content

AAPOR, the American Association for Public Opinion Research, yesterday reprimanded Atlanta-based PR firm Strategic Vision, LLC for failing to disclose even basic information about their political polls:

For more than one year, AAPOR was unable to obtain the following basic information about Strategic Vision LLC’s polling in New Hampshire and Wisconsin: who sponsored the survey; who conducted it; a description of the underlying sampling frame; an accounting of how “likely voters” were identified and selected; response rates; and a description of any weighting or estimating procedures used.​

This is a highly unusual step for AAPOR, which tends to be a conservative (lower-case 'c') organization that would not ordinarily be inclined to call out an individual pollster by name. But Strategic Vision brought the criticism entirely upon themselves, being the only one of 21 polling firms contacted by the organization that did not respond to the request, in spite of having literally months' worth of time to do so. As Mark Blumenthal notes, moreover, this is hardly an isolated incident: Strategic Vision has a long history of failing to disclose anything at all about their methodology, obfuscating around repeated requests from places like the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Nor is Strategic Vision any better about disclosing such information to the general public. By contrast, they never provide any demographic detail, cross-tabulations, methodological disclosure, or other supporting evidence in conjunction with their polls.

more ...

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: A Few More Questions for a Sketchy Pollster
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

JakeFromWI said:
See it at 75 Percent of Oklahoma Students Can't Name the First President.

This real folks, and no one seems to mind....

The majority of Americans are against health care reform you say?

The majority of Americans don't know who George Washington is either...

I got a kick out of this anectode regarding the students in one of the most conservative states in America as well:

"About 92 percent of the people who take the citizenship test pass on their first try, according to immigration service data. However, Oklahoma students did not fare as well. Only about 3 percent of the students surveyed would have passed the citizenship test."

11 percent also thought the two major political parties in the US were Communists and Republicans. Source: Here
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A telling analogy, I remember all the supposed "opposition" to the Iraqi war, I saw a poll a few years ago....only 17% of adults in America could even find Iraq on a world map.

Public education sure is a great argument for public health care, huh?
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/us/27history.html

Who Is To Blame for American Teens Ignorant of History and Literature?

........Beginning in the sixties, the mission of the schools has been redefined. The institutions training our teachers have come to see their job not as transmitting our culture but as changing it, not as passing on an understanding of the history and traditions of a democratic United States of America but as pursuing an agenda of far-left social activism. The U.S. - oppressive, racist, sexist, homophobic - needs to be set on the path toward greater equality, not just of opportunity but of results. Equality should be enforced by legislation if necessary, and the elitism of demands for excellence should be scrapped.

For the past half century this has been the message young people who want to be teachers have been getting along with a curriculum heavy on pedagogical methods and light on subject matters - a lot of emphasis on how to teach and very little knowledge of anything to teach. Curriculum has taken a back seat to methodology - it doesn't matter what children read as long as they can handle the vocabulary well enough to be moved on to the next grade. And with fads like "whole language" taking the place of phonics, this meant simple "basic readers" indeed............
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The above article has its good points and bad ones. I agree with the notion that too much time has been spent on developing theories of teaching, and not on teaching substance. The comment about "social justice" in the article is misleading in its attempt to paraphrase the NCATE's policy, but is probably dead on when describing how it implements it's attempt to be fair to all students with regards to race, ethnicity, socioeconomic background. Frankly I think the attempt to be "fair" has caused more problems than it has solved. Implimenting fair policy became more important than the content taught. Unequal achievement was construed as a poor implimentation of policy, and the futzing around with teaching methods became more important than other factors such as the tried and true, individual student ability and educational priority within the family.
 
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Kandahar said:
The idea that fifth graders could pass their social studies exams.....
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But, that's only after we lowered the bars.

Va. Lowers Passing Score for Some SOL Tests - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Note all the linked newpaper articles below this one, the elementary schools are scaling back....no fair to the high schoolers who were asked about Geroge Washington, how could we expect years of school to learn them of the Father of their Country, yes, they must have forgotten. Many many kids probably cannoteven remember who their own father is much less America's Daddy.

We had a quiz at work about George Patton one day, to see how many even knew who he was. A New York Yankee one of my favorites? The Beatles Manager was another guess(written guesses now), and my personal favorite, one of the employess guesses, the President of Greenpeace.

Heavens to Mergatroid.
 
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Charles Martel said:
But, that's only after we lowered the bars.

Va. Lowers Passing Score for Some SOL Tests - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Note all the linked newpaper articles below this one, the elementary schools are scaling back....no fair to the high schoolers who were asked about Geroge Washington, how could we expect years of school to learn them of the Father of their Country, yes, they must have forgotten. Many many kids probably cannoteven remember who their own father is much less America's Daddy.

We had a quiz at work about George Patton one day, to see how many even knew who he was. A New York Yankee one of my favorites? The Beatles Manager was another guess(written guesses now), and my personal favorite, one of the employess guesses, the President of Greenpeace.

Heavens to Mergatroid.
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Understand-Panda.jpg
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

EgoffTib said:
Some Panda photo
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But a picture rather than a response tells me alot....Ego.
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Charles Martel said:
That lovely Gem happens to be true and..probably happens to be more a reason why we get George Washington errors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/health/13mothers.html

Truth happens and it sometimes hurts...huh Ego?
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You're new here, so I'll cut you some slack. Generalizations will destroy your credibility. Also, "Out-of-Wedlock" birth has nothing to do with the individual not knowing who their father is, it simply means the parents were not married. Next time, try to bring substance to the discussion. Thanks!
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

EgoffTib said:
You're new here, so I'll cut you some slack.
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You're old here and I'm thoroughly unimpressed.

Generalizations will destroy your credibility.
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In a faceless, nameless talk forum.......Ego....your credibilty isn't at stake, it's sad you think it is. Please, don't take yourself so seriously.

Also, "Out-of-Wedlock" birth has nothing to do with the individual not knowing who their father is, it simply means the parents were not married. Next time, try to bring substance to the discussion. Thanks!
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For many, it means the parents aren't married, but this does correlate with numbers who don't know their fathers.

National Fatherhood Initiative ::: The Father Factor in Child Well-Being

I appreciate you not cutting me any slack but....as you've been here for so long(and being here I reckon makes you smarter), I'm not gonna cut you any. You know dam well no father in the home results in many of the social ills affecting everything from "Smarter to a fifth grader" to teen pregnancies are certainly education levels. You get no slack cut less you actually do some homework.

Facts are facts.
 
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Charles Martel said:
You're old here and I'm thoroughly unimpressed.
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I would be surprised if you were.

In a faceless, nameless talk forum.......Ego....your credibilty isn't at stake, it's sad you think it is. Please, don't take yourself so seriously.
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Plenty of credibility is at stake in any social situation. This is basic knowledge. If one joins this forum with the intention of being a troll, one will be excluded from any sort of intelligent discussion(mainly because people do not like to waste their time). This would be unfortunate for anyone who truly enjoys debating politics.

For many, it means the parents aren't married, but this does correlate with numbers who don't know their fathers.

National Fatherhood Initiative ::: The Father Factor in Child Well-Being

I appreciate you not cutting me any slack but....as you've been here for so long(and being here I reckon makes you smarter), I'm not gonna cut you any. You know dam well no father in the home results in many of the social ills affecting everything from "Smarter to a fifth grader" to teen pregnancies are certainly education levels. You get no slack cut less you actually do some homework.

Facts are facts.
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Having no father in the home is not the same thing as not knowing who your father is. Why you continue to overlook this fact is baffling.
 
Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

EgoffTib said:
Plenty of credibility is at stake in any social situation. This is basic knowledge. If one joins this forum with the intention of being a troll, one will be excluded from any sort of intelligent discussion(mainly because people do not like to waste their time). This would be unfortunate for anyone who truly enjoys debating politics.
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Excluded from intelligent discussion? Does that mean the person will simply receive pictures of Pandas?

Having no father in the home is not the same thing as not knowing who your father is. Why you continue to overlook this fact is baffling.
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Oh yes it is. Your father isn't the same role model, doesn't have as much influence on your life and we know a father in the home is critical. Our US prison population for example, a primary common denominator of men in prison today..they had no father living in their home. The slice and dice you do here is deflecting from the problem of children today not having a father around, I believe no father in the home has more to do with your George Washington issue than does forgotten father of our nation.

I wonder...of those who didn't know who George Washington was...how many come from a broken home or one with only one parent?

Bet it's most! And i'm still not impressed but a lil baffled myself, you actually put cred points into this forum? I mean..who really cares?
 
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Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Charles Martel said:
Excluded from intelligent discussion? Does that mean the person will simply receive pictures of Pandas?
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Precisely. Maybe now you understand my response to your post. ;)


Oh yes it is. Your father isn't the same role model, doesn't have as much influence on your life and we know a father in the home is critical. Our US prison population for example, a primary common denominator of men in prison today..they had no father living in their home. The slice and dice you do here is deflecting from the problem of children today not having a father around, I believe no father in the home has more to do with your George Washington issue than does forgotten father of our nation.

I wonder...of those who didn't know who George Washington was...how many come from a broken home or one with only one parent?
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You've missed the point of this entire thread. It was established early on that this survey has a massive margin of error and that the data is virtually worthless since the respondents did not take the survey seriously.
 
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