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Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

Devil505 said:
I agree that words have consequences & can cause problems, but there is no proof the Carter's words were a result of haste, nor is there a required threshold needed to be reached to have a concern. Just as words have consequences, saying nothing about a perceived major problem can also lead to terrible consequences.
A former President , one must assume, loves his country & has it's best interests at heart. So, I feel that Jimmy Carter felt it was his moral & patriotic duty to express his concerns , which I happen to agree with.......in part:
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You were OK, right up to this part: "A former President , one must assume, loves his country & has it's best interests at heart." This is the leap that is problematic. One cannot assume that Carter, or any former President has their country's best interests at heart. It is certainly possible that their behaviors could be self serving. I am not saying that Carter's were, but one does not need to give automatic respect to a former President because they are a former President.

I think the major motivation against Obama's HC plan is simple greed, not racism...but...... I think that big insurance is "Pulling Out All The Stops" in their fight to keep their high profits & are deliberately using racism against this nation's first black President as one tactic in fighting HC reform. Wilson has received major financial assistance from the insurance industry, so to say that is not enough probable cause to back a reasonable concern by former President Carter..... is not credible to me.

Thus....My opinion is that greed is the major motive & racism is just one of the tactics being used.

The only ones who can say for sure what their motivations were are former President Carter & Joe Wilson. Anyone else is just guessing.
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I agree with the greed explanation, fully. The racism explanation is very weak and I do not see it in the context you are discussing. I have seen no evidence pointing towards racism in this situation, and would prefer to give folks the benefit of the doubt before making these kinds of accusations. This is my problem with Carter's comment.
 
Redress said:
OOO, OOO...pick me, pick me!
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Nah, I don't think anyone can even mimic that guy's lack of debating skills.

But enough about that...he's history. Back to the topic.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
You were OK, right up to this part: "A former President , one must assume, loves his country & has it's best interests at heart." This is the leap that is problematic. One cannot assume that Carter, or any former President has their country's best interests at heart. It is certainly possible that their behaviors could be self serving. I am not saying that Carter's were, but one does not need to give automatic respect to a former President because they are a former President.
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While it is possible that Carter's motives were self serving, it is also possible that they represent a true concern on his part...... & from all I know of Jimmy Carter, I will give him the benefit of that doubt.
He isn't out hawking a new book or doing anything else that would lead ME to believe that he isn't sincere in his concerns.
Now, whether or not his concerns are TRUE is another matter, but irrelevant to his motives.




CaptainCourtesy said:
I agree with the greed explanation, fully. The racism explanation is very weak and I do not see it in the context you are discussing. I have seen no evidence pointing towards racism in this situation, and would prefer to give folks the benefit of the doubt before making these kinds of accusations. This is my problem with Carter's comment.
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I prefer to accept the possibility that racism is playing a part in all this & whether it is the base motive or simply a tactic is debatable.
In either case it is reprehensible if true.
 
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Devil505 said:
While it is possible that Carter's motives were self serving, it is also possible that they represent a true concern on his part & from all I know of Jimmy Carter, I will give him the benefit of that doubt.
He isn't out hawking a new book or doing anything else that would lead ME to believe that he isn't sincere in his concerns.
Now, whether or not his concerns are TRUE is another matter, but irrelevant to his motives.
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Hmmm...so you give Carter the benefit of the doubt, but not Wilson. Wanna play Hypocrisy Check! [FONT=&quot]™?

In truth, Carter's motivations are irrelevant. One must consider the repercussions of his words. One would think that a former President would consider this.
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I prefer to accept the possibility that racism is playing a part in all this & whether it is the base motive or simply a tactic is debatable.
In either case it is reprehensible if true.
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Well, then I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps a good question would be why you would prefer to accept the possibility that racism is a part of this.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
So, someone who supports not extraditing a SS war criminal would be a racist; someone who supports flying the Confederate flag is NOT racist. Is this your position?
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Late getting back to this, I know, but I'd just point out that I'm not necessarily saying that the SS thing is racist; only that the Confederate flag issue (a symbol, a piece of cloth) is trivial compared to an actual, live SS war criminal. I wouldn't necessarily play the race card on either of those.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Hmmm...so you give Carter the benefit of the doubt, but not Wilson.
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I know allot more about Carter than I do about Wilson so, yes I think Jimmy Carter deserves my benefit of doubt where....... the little I know of Wilson does not lead me to give him the same.




CaptainCourtesy said:
Well, then I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps a good question would be why you would prefer to accept the possibility that racism is a part of this.
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I guess the only way I can answer that is to offer my whole life's experiences in which I have dealt with people of both good & bad character. I do not know enough about Wilson to say I KNOW he is a racist but I think I do know enough to have reasonable suspicions.
You may not have these same suspicions but I do.

It is getting late & I'm going to bed in a minute but I think the outrage against Carter is unfair & unjustified & while I can't prove he is right, no one can prove he is wrong either.



Edit: I missed this earlier (told you it's getting late!):)

CaptainCourtesy said:
In truth, Carter's motivations are irrelevant. One must consider the repercussions of his words. One would think that a former President would consider this.
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& how do you know he didn't think about the possible repercussions of his words? I would guess that he thought about it quite a bit but...only he can answer that question.
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
In truth, Carter's motivations are irrelevant. One must consider the repercussions of his words. One would think that a former President would consider this.
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It's 7:16AM &, while having coffee I just wanted to add a thought to my comment on this subject of last night:
Not only do I believe Carter gave some thought to his words before he spoke them, I think he fully appreciated their impact & understood that he would be vilified by many for saying them.
I consider it a mark of the man's courage & integrity that, knowing he would undoubtedly be viciously attacked for saying them....he said them anyway because loves his country to much to remain silent.
 
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Devil505 said:
It's 7:16AM &, while having coffee I just wanted to add a thought to my comment on this subject of last night:
Not only do I believe Carter gave some thought to his words before he spoke them, I think he fully appreciated their impact & understood that he would be vilified by many for saying them.
I consider it a mark of the man's courage & integrity that, knowing he would undoubtedly be viciously attacked for saying them....he said them anyway because loves his country to much to remain silent.
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Carter gave thought to his comments. Obama has given thought to a wise response., Wilson gave thought to his comments--I'm sure they were planned rather than a random uncontrolled outburst.

None of the Republicans looked surprised or even turned their heads in his direction when he said "you're lying".
 
Devil505 said:
It's 7:16AM &, while having coffee I just wanted to add a thought to my comment on this subject of last night:
Not only do I believe Carter gave some thought to his words before he spoke them, I think he fully appreciated their impact & understood that he would be vilified by many for saying them.
I consider it a mark of the man's courage & integrity that, knowing he would undoubtedly be viciously attacked for saying them....he said them anyway because loves his country to much to remain silent.
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Show me Carter's evidence.
 
American said:
Show me Carter's evidence.
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What evidence would convince you? Joe Wilson is a 'good ol boy', Strom Thurmonds' prodigy. Strom Thrumond the segregationist and most famous racist in the Senate. Joe Wilson the guy who wants to fly the Confederate flag over the state capitol.
 
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Devil505 said:
It's 7:16AM &, while having coffee I just wanted to add a thought to my comment on this subject of last night:
Not only do I believe Carter gave some thought to his words before he spoke them, I think he fully appreciated their impact & understood that he would be vilified by many for saying them.
I consider it a mark of the man's courage & integrity that, knowing he would undoubtedly be viciously attacked for saying them....he said them anyway because loves his country to much to remain silent.
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Do you think he gave thought to the fact that he was about to embarrass the president? Do you think Obama appreciated his comments right before a tv talk show spree?

"So do you agree with former president Carter, Mr. President?"
 
sazerac said:
Do you think he gave thought to the fact that he was about to embarrass the president? Do you think Obama appreciated his comments right before a tv talk show spree?

"So do you agree with former president Carter, Mr. President?"
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He gave thought to embarassing the President and planned his statement. The only people who looked back in surprise were the Democrats. It was planned alright--just like the disruptions at the Town Hall meetings have been planned.
 
windovervocalcords said:
He gave thought to embarassing the President and planned his statement. The only people who looked back in surprise were the Democrats. It was planned alright--just like the disruptions at the Town Hall meetings have been planned.
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How do you know this? Why would Wilson choose that particular way to embarrass the president? Surely if one were planning such a thing, one would do it in a way that doesn't embarrass ones self.
 
StandUpChuck said:
How do you know this? Why would Wilson choose that particular way to embarrass the president? Surely if one were planning such a thing, one would do it in a way that doesn't embarrass ones self.
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I'm basing this on the fact that the only ones who reacted in surprise were Democrats. The Republicans didn't even look at Wilson.

I doubt that Wilson felt embarassed or chagrined in any way at all.
 
windovervocalcords said:
I'm basing this on the fact that the only ones who reacted in surprise were Democrats. The Republicans didn't even look at Wilson.

I doubt that Wilson felt embarassed or chagrined in any way at all.
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This is all smoke and mirrors. Do you have proof that saying "You lie!" is racist?
 
Here is a well thought out argument that makes sense to me. Consider that Wilson has been on many talk shows now basically rescinding his apology.

"Wilson’s unprecedented assault on the dignity of the American presidency was part of a long-line of PR stunts to create chaos out of the effort to insure the health of most Americans: the Teabaggers, the Birthers, the Town Hall Mobs, the anti-President “Know Nothing” Parents pulling their kids from school the day before Obama’s speech, and then the shocking outburst of Joe Wilson, which he apparently shouted twice.

Never mind that Strom Thurmond’s ex-aide was actually the liar, the evolution of politics into spectacle allowed the likely planned inflammatory outburst to dominate at least the following three news cycles, instead of the substance and soaring appeal of President Obama to pass legislation to benefit the national community.

Wilson is the prototypical Neo-Confederate, Glenn Beck, racist, psychotic Republican. He supports waving the Confederate flag. He makes Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confederacy, look like a moderate, and is known for making slanderous statements about the “patriotism” of others and upholding the racist legacy of Strom Thurmond, his mentor.

So Wilson was the perfect guy to distract the media by committing the unprecedented act of disrupting a Presidential speech by calling the President of the United States a liar. In the Bush Administration, if a Democrat had done that he would have been expelled from Congress. But Wilson just issued a non-apology apology and then went on television the next day to repeat the lie about the healthcare reform bill, and the media let him get away with prevaricating about his accusation."
Where’s the Outrage? Was Joe Wilson’s outburst planned?
 
windovervocalcords said:
Here is a well thought out argument that makes sense to me. Consider that Wilson has been on many talk shows now basically rescinding his apology.

"Wilson’s unprecedented assault on the dignity of the American presidency was part of a long-line of PR stunts to create chaos out of the effort to insure the health of most Americans: the Teabaggers, the Birthers, the Town Hall Mobs, the anti-President “Know Nothing” Parents pulling their kids from school the day before Obama’s speech, and then the shocking outburst of Joe Wilson, which he apparently shouted twice.

Never mind that Strom Thurmond’s ex-aide was actually the liar, the evolution of politics into spectacle allowed the likely planned inflammatory outburst to dominate at least the following three news cycles, instead of the substance and soaring appeal of President Obama to pass legislation to benefit the national community.

Wilson is the prototypical Neo-Confederate, Glenn Beck, racist, psychotic Republican. He supports waving the Confederate flag. He makes Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confederacy, look like a moderate, and is known for making slanderous statements about the “patriotism” of others and upholding the racist legacy of Strom Thurmond, his mentor.

So Wilson was the perfect guy to distract the media by committing the unprecedented act of disrupting a Presidential speech by calling the President of the United States a liar. In the Bush Administration, if a Democrat had done that he would have been expelled from Congress. But Wilson just issued a non-apology apology and then went on television the next day to repeat the lie about the healthcare reform bill, and the media let him get away with prevaricating about his accusation."
Where’s the Outrage? Was Joe Wilson’s outburst planned?
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I wish you woild make your own well thought out argument. This loser lost me at "teabagger."

Were all of Hillary's eye rolls when Bush was giving his presidential addresses planned out, too?
 
windovervocalcords said:
I'm basing this on the fact that the only ones who reacted in surprise were Democrats. The Republicans didn't even look at Wilson.

I doubt that Wilson felt embarassed or chagrined in any way at all.
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Amazing how a "we're gonna do this, make sure you do this ... heheeee" strategy flew through Washington, and it never leaked. Simply Amazing.
 
StandUpChuck said:
I wish you woild make your own well thought out argument. This loser lost me at "teabagger."

Were all of Hillary's eye rolls when Bush was giving his presidential addresses planned out, too?
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Tea bagger refers to the Tea Party participants. He said 'you lie' twice and then he got to say it over and over in talk shows. Actions speak volumes, along with his words.

He apologized but he isn't sorry.
 
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American said:
This is all smoke and mirrors. Do you have proof that saying "You lie!" is racist?
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The topic relates to Jimmy Carter's statement about his concerns, & no proof of Wilson's intent is needed or really even on topic, nor is any proof required that Carter is either right or wrong.
 
windovervocalcords said:
Tea bagger refers to the Tea Party participants. He said 'you lie' twice and then he got to say it over and over in talk shows. Actions speak volumes, along with his words.

He apologized but he isn't sorry.
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So basically you have nothing but a blog to prove that Wilson saying "You lie!" was racist. You're joking, right?
 
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