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Thread: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Truthfully, this, to me, is nothing more than bias on your part. You are certainly entitled to it...as is everyone, but that's how it's coming across. I'm not sure whether it is ideologically based or whether there is some other basis, but you seem to be looking at this in a very one-sided way.
    I think only a fool or a liar would claim he has no biases. All of us have different life experiences which effect our perception of the world around us & shape our views. I admit to my biases but feel that my experiences have made me a pretty decent judge of others &, while no one is infallible, my judgment has never really failed me.









    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    He may have thought about it, but decided that what he wanted to say was more important than those repercussions. The "racist" issue demeans Obama's Presidency on many levels. If Carter wants to bring it up to present this as a reason for discourse towards Obama's policies, he failed miserably. He presented a red herring, rather than addressing the meat of the issue...something we see here at DP all the time.
    I simply disagree & feel that ...while Carter's remarks may be a an unwanted distraction to Obama right now, they in no way demean his Presidency & are actually a welcome subject to discuss in this country instead of the steroid use in MLB or the Terry Schiavo tragedy that we were distracted with before.
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-20-09 at 05:22 PM.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I think only a fool or a liar would claim he has no biases. All of us have different life experiences which effect our perception of the world around us & shape our views. I admit to my biases but feel that my experiences have made me a pretty decent judge of others &, while no one is infallible, my judgment has never really failed me.
    Of course everyone has biases, but to get a true picture of a situation, it is helpful to look past your biases to other possibilities. Doesn't mean those other possibilities are right or even acceptable, but you seem to be closing yourself off to the possibility of that a different view holds credence because of your biases.

    I simply disagree & feel that ...while Carter's remarks may be a an unwanted distraction to Obama right now, they in no way demean his Presidency & are actually a welcome subject to discuss in this country instead of the steroid use in MLB or the Terry Schiavo tragedy that we were distracted with before.
    Then we are just going to have to agree to disagree, here. To me, this was harmful to Obama's Presidency for the reasons I described.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Of course everyone has biases, but to get a true picture of a situation, it is helpful to look past your biases to other possibilities. Doesn't mean those other possibilities are right or even acceptable, but you seem to be closing yourself off to the possibility of that a different view holds credence because of your biases.
    You & I know very little about each other & I would suggest that you are incorrect when you guess that ..."you seem to be closing yourself off to the possibility of that a different view holds credence because of your biases."
    In actuality I listen to talk radio, watch all the major news networks (including CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc) & CSPAN for gavel to gavel coverage of Congressional hearings, etc. C-SPAN | Capitol Hill, The White House and National Politics...so I try to consider all sides to most issues & then choose sides as intelligently as I can.
    One of my problems is that I tend to be very direct/blunt in conversation & debate & realize that I may appear to be totally one sided & closed-minded...which is not the case.



    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Then we are just going to have to agree to disagree, here.
    I think that is the best thing we could agree on & welcome this type of discussion, where personal attack has no place & adults can discuss serious issues......Like adults! Thanks!
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-20-09 at 05:59 PM.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    You & I know very little about each other & I would suggest that you are incorrect when you guess that ..."you seem to be closing yourself off to the possibility of that a different view holds credence because of your biases."
    In actuality I listen to talk radio, watch all the major news networks (including CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc) & CSPAN for gavel to gavel coverage of Congressional hearings, etc. C-SPAN | Capitol Hill, The White House and National Politics...so I try to consider all sides to most issues & then choose sides as intelligently as I can.
    One of my problems is that I tend to be very direct/blunt in conversation & debate & realize that I may appear to be totally one sided & closed-minded...which is not the case.
    Direct and blunt isn't the issue. Most of the good debaters at DP are both...myself included. It just seems to me that your perception of things doesn't allow you to consider other possibilities. Many of my Hypocrisy Check! questions are based on the ability to understand the validity of an opposing viewpoint, even if you don't agree with it.

    I think that is the best thing we could agree on & welcome this type of discussion, where personal attack has no place & adults can discuss serious issues......Like adults! Thanks!
    That's fine. Always good to debate another liberal when I disagree with them, especially when it doesn't degenerate into idiotic personal attacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Direct and blunt isn't the issue. Most of the good debaters at DP are both...myself included. It just seems to me that your perception of things doesn't allow you to consider other possibilities.
    I never claimed to be perfect & have admitted errors here & even apologized a few times. Can you point out specific posts/issues that lead you to believe that I don't consider other possibilities.?

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I never claimed to be perfect & have admitted errors here & even apologized a few times. Can you point out specific posts/issues that lead you to believe that I don't consider other possibilities.?
    Your bias concerning Carter. Without evidence you give him the benefit of the doubt on the issue, but not Wilson. Consider this. Wilson's motivation for saying what he did may be purely ideological. It may be born of the silly partisan crap that has been floating around. These possibilities seem far more likely than the racist angle. Yet, it seems because Carter declared this, you have geared your perceptions towards that motivation, even though the others seem far more probable.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Your bias concerning Carter. Without evidence you give him the benefit of the doubt on the issue, but not Wilson. Consider this. Wilson's motivation for saying what he did may be purely ideological. It may be born of the silly partisan crap that has been floating around. These possibilities seem far more likely than the racist angle. Yet, it seems because Carter declared this, you have geared your perceptions towards that motivation, even though the others seem far more probable.
    My bias towards Carter stems from my being 62 yrs old & having lived through & worked under a number of different Presidents in my life. I have always felt that Jimmy Carter was/is a very moral man who likes to help his fellow American. His work with Habitat For Humanity, for example...where he physically works at building homes for the less fortunate has always impressed me.
    On the other hand, I feel he was almost too moral (& slightly naive) to be an effective President.
    I think he makes a much better Ex-President than he did an active one.

    Therefore, I give him the benefit of doubt.

    Joe Wilson, on the other hand, I only know from his rude outburst at a sitting President addressing a joint session of Congress & being admonished for doing so, even by members of his own party.
    Then, when I read about his affiliation with questionable southern groups, his denial of Strom Thurman's admitted black child & the money he has received from insurance companies,....these things do not PROVE he is a racist or even a bad person, but they are certainly enough information for me to have suspicions & to withhold giving him the same benefit of doubt that I give former President Carter.
    Additionally I have said that I feel Wilson's outburst was probably motivated more by greed than by a racist bent...but still feel some racism was involved.

    If you feel that this doesn't indicate I have made my judgment (right or wrong) without weighing the evidence available to me, then we'll just have to again agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-20-09 at 07:00 PM.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    My bias towards Carter stems from my being 62 yrs old & having lived through & worked under a number of different Presidents in my life. I have always felt that Jimmy Carter was/is a very moral man who likes to help his fellow American. His work with Habitat For Humanity, for example...where he physically works at building homes for the less fortunate has always impressed me.
    On the other hand, I feel he was almost too moral (& slightly naive) to be an effective President.
    I think he makes a much better Ex-President than he did an active one.

    Therefore, I give him the benefit of doubt.
    I also lived through the Carter years (though I couldn't vote, yet) and agree with your assessment as to why he was a poor President. It could make him a good ex-President, but I think in some instances he puts his morals ahead of the needs of the country.

    Joe Wilson, on the other hand, I only know from his rude outburst at a sitting President addressing a joint session of Congress & being admonished for doing so, even by members of his own party.
    Then, when I read about his affiliation with questionable southern groups, his denial of Strom Thurman's admitted black child & the money he has received from insurance companies,....these things do not PROVE he is a racist or even a bad person, but they are certainly enough information for me to have suspicions & to withhold giving him the same benefit of doubt that I give former President Carter.
    Additionally I have said that I feel Wilson's outburst was probably motivated more by greed than by a racist bent...but still feel some racism was involved.

    If you feel that this doesn't indicate I have made my judgment (right or wrong) without weighing the evidence available to me, then we'll just have to again agree to disagree.
    I just see this very differently. It is far more indicative of the partisan rhetoric that has attached itself to many things in this country, and a reaction to ideological differences. Greed has something to do with it, too, IMO. I don't see the racism angle. It could exist, but without evidence, presenting it demeans the entire issue. That's what I'm trying to communicate.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I just see this very differently. It is far more indicative of the partisan rhetoric that has attached itself to many things in this country, and a reaction to ideological differences. Greed has something to do with it, too, IMO. I don't see the racism angle. It could exist, but without evidence, presenting it demeans the entire issue. That's what I'm trying to communicate.
    So it doesn't appear that our views are that far apart but when you imply that it appears that I don't look at all sides & just jump to a partisan decision, I just think that is an unfair & hasty charge, now that I have explained my reasons for feeling the way I do.

    Do I expect to change your mind about Wilson?...No

    Do I hope you understand why I have come to my conclusion that Wilson does not deserve my benefit of doubt?..Yes

    Do I agree that just bringing up the possibility of it being racially motivated demeans the entire issue?...No
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-20-09 at 08:02 PM.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So it doesn't appear that our views are that far apart but when you imply that it appears that I don't look at all sides & just jump to a partisan decision, I just think that is an unfair & hasty charge, now that I have explained my reasons for feeling the way I do.

    Do I expect to change your mind about Wilson?...No

    Do I hope you understand why I have come to my conclusion that Wilson does not deserve my benefit of doubt?..Yes

    Do I agree that just bringing up the possibility of it being racially motivated demeans the entire issue?...No
    I agree with the first two statements/questions. It is the third that you and I have a disagreement on. I suppose, from my position, I am looking at the entire picture, not just this one issue, but how things in one area affect others. To me, you are looking at this as a singular issue.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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