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Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

Lets say it's 60k.


That's still a hell of a lot of people for a tax/healthcare/deficit protest....

I agree. I have said that 60k is still a significant number. Especially coming from a side of politics that isn't particularly experienced with "protesting".

I think the inflated numbers are coming from the fringiest of the movement who obviously hoped for a larger turnout. They don't understand that they are actually hurting their cause with their ridiculous claims. It makes the message and the entire movement look more ridiculous.
 
Out of a 300 million plus population? I really donlt think 60k is that impressive.




meh, like I said before, there are many like me, who agree with the sentiment of the protest, but who would only protest, under extreme duress, and then, from the rooftops with a high caliber rifle. :shrug:


Getting a bunch of jobless dirty hippies to a war protest easy.


Getting 60k right and lbertarians to anything like this. simply astounding.
 
I agree. I have said that 60k is still a significant number. Especially coming from a side of politics that isn't particularly experienced with "protesting".

I think the inflated numbers are coming from the fringiest of the movement who obviously hoped for a larger turnout. They don't understand that they are actually hurting their cause with their ridiculous claims. It makes the message and the entire movement look more ridiculous.




I have said in this thread before, I am not concerned about the numbers, your side does it, and apparently so does the right. :shrug: not a bit of difference really.
 
My cousin lives in D.C. and he said it was at least 100k. Just his estimate,though.
 
4x? I don't think so.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7232/29668977.jpg

Besides, the length out to 14th & E is longer, and like I said, all we can see in the pic is the people in the frame. There's a lot more of DC than just PA Ave.




I didn't give any numbers. I commented on the pic and the area it encompassed -- nothing more, nothing less.

Dude....take a ruler to your own picture. The mall is clearly 4x wider.

If you take a standard ruler the mall measures 1 and 1/2 inches. Pennsylvania ave is about 1/3 of an inch.
 
I have said in this thread before, I am not concerned about the numbers, your side does it, and apparently so does the right. :shrug: not a bit of difference really.

I agree. I remember at the last "March of Washington" in support of gay rights. Organizers had hoped for over a million. The estimate came in at 400k.

There was a lot of dispute over the numbers there as well. Kinda silly....400k is still a large turn-out.
 
31 pages, many of them disputing the numbers. Does it really matter?
Protesting is fine, it does not achieve much when it comes to changing the policy of those in charge. How about ensure those who oppose Obama vote in the next election? Take congress away from them if you can otherwise we still have 3 years left of this ride.
 
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Exactly.
There's bound to be some legitimately concerned citizens who aren't racist, socialist, Nazi lovin', devil worshiping dumb dumbs. Why must those people's important opinions of opposition be broad brushed by main stream and shallow partisanship?

Probably because these days its more about entertainment to people. Not about issues. Pity.

Same Alinsky play book the Dems are working from.... Marginalize, demonize, and isolate. If you can change the subject and get everyone arguing about crowd size instead of the real message.... you win.

That is until people get so fed up with this crap they exercise their real second amendment rights.
 
Dude....take a ruler to your own picture. The mall is clearly 4x wider.

If you take a standard ruler the mall measures 1 and 1/2 inches. Pennsylvania ave is about 1/3 of an inch.

Pennsylvania Ave. is about 156' wide. The mall is about 260' wide.

Wider yes, but not 4x wider.
 
I agree. I remember at the last "March of Washington" in support of gay rights. Organizers had hoped for over a million. The estimate came in at 400k.

There was a lot of dispute over the numbers there as well. Kinda silly....400k is still a large turn-out.




One would think they could get more. I never met a gay that didn't love a parade..... :lol:
 
meh, like I said before, there are many like me, who agree with the sentiment of the protest, but who would only protest, under extreme duress, and then, from the rooftops with a high caliber rifle. :shrug:


Getting a bunch of jobless dirty hippies to a war protest easy.


Getting 60k right and lbertarians to anything like this. simply astounding.

Like libertarians work? I thought they just wanted to get fat collecting money on their money
 
Same Alinsky play book the Dems are working from.... Marginalize, demonize, and isolate. If you can change the subject and get everyone arguing about crowd size instead of the real message.... you win.

That is until people get so fed up with this crap they exercise their real second amendment rights.

I agree that it is Alinsky method being played by the Dems. It scares me to death that the Health Care debate is covering up for the obviously ill founded Cap and Trade bill that has actually passed the house already. That bill is just plain stupid. Are they going to tax us every time we exhale as was memorialized in a Beetles song. Just absurd.

I think the protesters are more worried about the administration's view on Cap and Trade than Health Care. But both HR3200 and Cap & Trade are down right extreme socialist even fascist in their nature. Tell everyone what to eat so they don't get fat and burn HC money or maybe exhale excessive CO2. Freedom isn't free.

Cap and Trade is simply a conspiracy between Obama/Dems and GE. If O and the Dems aren't being paid off now they will be. MSNBC, owned by GE, sure is blatently in the O/Dem camp.

But I ramble...
 
Dude....take a ruler to your own picture. The mall is clearly 4x wider.

If you take a standard ruler the mall measures 1 and 1/2 inches. Pennsylvania ave is about 1/3 of an inch.

What are you looking at, just one side of traffic?
 
What are you looking at, just one side of traffic?

Take a close look at your own picture link dude.

Are you seriously going to try to argue that they are comparable? :doh

Even assuming that they by some chance were. When the mall is COMPLETELY filled it holds 240,000.

Why are you guys so desperately trying to inflate your numbers. It is making the cause look rather silly.
 
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Take a close look at your own picture link dude.

Are you seriously going to try to argue that they are comparable? :doh

I'm saying "4x" is whackadoodle, and I put the pic up to show it.


Even assuming that they by some chance were. When the mall is COMPLETELY filled it holds 240,000.

Yeah, and?


Why are you guys so desperately trying to inflate your numbers. It is making the cause look rather silly.

Where did I try to "inflate" anything?
 
"Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

“It was in no way an official estimate,” he said.

We asked Piringer whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall, as depicted in the photograph.

“It was an impressive crowd,” he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, the crowd “only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,” he said.

Yet the photograph so widely posted showed the crowd sprawling all the way to the Washington Monument, which is bordered by 15th and and 17th Streets.

There’s another problem with the photograph: It doesn’t include the National Museum of the American Indian, a building located at the corner of Fourth Street and Independence Avenue that opened on Sept. 14, 2004. (Looking at the photograph, the building should be in the upper right hand corner of the National Mall, next to the Air and Space Museum.) That means the picture was taken before the museum opened exactly five years ago. So clearly the photo doesn’t show the “tea party” crowd from the Sept. 12 protest.

Also worth noting are the cranes in front of the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History. According to Randall Kremer, the museum’s director of public affairs, “The last time cranes were in front was in the 1990s when the IMAX theater was being built.”

It appears that the photo was actually taken in 1997 at a rally for Promise Keepers, a group for Christian men. According to the group’s Web site, nearly 1 million people attended the event. Photos of the Oct. 4, 1997, event that were posted on various Web sites in 2003, 2008 and earlier this year show either the same picture or a similar photo that has identical tents and what appear to be TV screens in the same locations.

Conservative bloggers who originally posted the picture have backed down."
 
meh, like I said before, there are many like me, who agree with the sentiment of the protest, but who would only protest, under extreme duress, and then, from the rooftops with a high caliber rifle. :shrug:


Getting a bunch of jobless dirty hippies to a war protest easy.


Getting 60k right and lbertarians to anything like this. simply astounding.

First of all, those jobless hippies are running Apple Computer. ;)

But seriously, I didn't realize we had confirmed the gainful employment of all the protestors this weekend. My point is, there was definitely a mix of folks out there--and it did appear to be mostly libertarians and conservatives. But let's not make assumptions about their employment.

Glen Beck (and maybe others) have portrayed it as an "American" movement where people from all political beliefs got together to protest big government. Maybe that's what he wanted. But that's not what happened. A truly American popular movement would have to include a broad and equal representation of Americans united and focused.

Also, those hippies in the 60s were not the only ones who wanted the war in Vietnam to end. Mothers, fathers, wives and children of servicemen. My point here is that the conservatives are not he only ones who don't like new taxes. And libertarians are not the only ones concerned about the expansion of the federal government. But right-of-center folks, moderates, and centrists want nothing to do with birhers, Hitler signs, racists, and anyone shouting into our face. Fair enough?

I think it's right to question and discuss every policy, especially a major bill on health care reform. But it has been difficult to find 'common ground' if you will, with people on the far right in terms a basic understanding of what's being purposed. Death Panels, pulling the plug, socialism, etc. Can't have a discussion when we're not on the same reasonable and level-headed page.

I have questions and concerns about the Public Option, but I don't see it as a trojan horse to single payer.

The Obama Administration's reaching out to Big Pharma over the Insurance companies raises eyebrows, but the drug companies produce a necessary product (for a profit) and develop new products and technology. Health care providers provide a service--the actual care. But what do insurance companies do? Their business model is based on something that is counter-intuitive. Insure as many people as possible, but pay out as few claims as possible. It would be a like a restaurant getting customers to pay at the door, then feeding them as little as possible at the buffet. Not that they are an evil, greedy industry that should be eliminated--I'm not saying that at all. However, if they could be made to be more competitive with pricing and providing service--I see that as a good thing. And if they could be made to do this without too much new government regulation/oversight. Better.

My problem with the Public Option is that it will be run from the Federal level which means too many layers of bureaucracy, waste, and corruption, which all result in bad PR. And, eventually, a well-meaning program being labeled a failure.

I would rather see the Federal government offer incentives to co-ops or non-profit health insurance companies at the state and local levels. Or offering incentives to non-profit/co-op health care providers. Merge the insurance companies into the provider. Like a health club. You pay your membership feel, you pay your dues, and then you can use any machine, go to any class you want. I would like to see health insurance/health care merge into a health club business model. An new kind of HMO with competitive pricing and service.

Sure, some health clubs are nicer than others and what do you do if you're out of town? Okay, I haven't worked it all out, but that's the direction I think would provide better care at a lower cost.

Local government can be very pragmatic and efficient when it comes to providing services to communities. If they don't, they have to answer for it in an immediate and personal way. Medium and small states can also run their own programs a lot better than the feds.

California?? We're screwed.:doh We are like a small country in civil disorder. If only Arnie were a super hero.

Anyway. Just my opinion on the issue of health care reform.
 
Dood, why did you do that?


A big long post?


I gots to leave for a Devils game in a few mins.... I'll have to come back to this. :lol:
 
My point is, there was definitely a mix of folks out there--and it did appear to be mostly libertarians and conservatives. But let's not make assumptions about their employment.

What, are you making some kind of attempt to appear "moderate" and level-headed now?

A sad excuse for a popular uprising.

The illiterate, the uninformed, frustrated by their own shortcomings in life, they lash out blindly and without the vaguest notion of what they are fighting for. "We want our country back.":roll:

Birthers, bigots, closet bigots, homophobes and closet homosexuals. People who have never formed an original thought or opinion in their entire lives.

In the history of marches on Washington, this will go down as a pathetic footnote. Rebels without a cause or a clue lead by a mentally unstable media clown named Glen Beck.

They drink a cool-aide made from equal parts fear, prejudice, and willful ignorance.

I sincerely feel sorry for them.:(
 
Glen Beck (and maybe others) have portrayed it as an "American" movement where people from all political beliefs got together to protest big government. Maybe that's what he wanted. But that's not what happened.

Well, if you look at the polls, you will find that every demographic and political leaning in America is losing faith in Obama and his policies, so it would make perfect sense to say that the protesters were not just conservatives and republicans... But hey, common sense has no business in political debate... right?


A truly American popular movement would have to include a broad and equal representation of Americans united and focused.

Is that code for "no liberals, so no legitimacy"?



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