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Thread: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

  1. #421
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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    "Chastized" by whom?

    Come on Redress, say it with me.

    "The Left."

    Come on, you can do it. Together, we can defeat ignorance.

    "The Left."
    No, that is not accurate. They where threatened with a lawsuit by Farrakhon, so congress said fine, they simply won't do more estimates in DC and it won't be a problem again. You make these wild left wing conspiracy claims with no backing whatsoever. I know logic can be hard, but you could try it just once, maybe you will like it.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    This isn't a vast conspiracy, they're fairly upfront about this. It's any political reaction. Trying to act like the New Left is 'above' criticizing those who run contrary to their opinion of something is not only uneducated, it's a touch pathetic.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    This isn't a vast conspiracy, they're fairly upfront about this. It's any political reaction. Trying to act like the New Left is 'above' criticizing those who run contrary to their opinion of something is not only uneducated, it's a touch pathetic.
    And apparently creating strawmen is not above the right. No one has suggested that the left is above criticizing those we disagree with, nor are those on the right.

    So tell me, when are you going to document your claim that the left got the NPS banned from doing crowd estimates since we were pissed about the Million Man March estimate? Do you have any evidence whatsoever?

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    Not sure I'm following you. ...are Glenn Beck and Foxnews not the source of these exaggerated numbers in the first place? I mean, other than you looking at a picture and magically pronouncing the crowd size to be in the upper hundreds of thousands.
    No, Glen Becks claims were in the 1.5-2 million range, which I also find to be a gross exaggerration... New york times and other news outlets claimed the opposite extreme.

    I looked at the videos and pictures (not the one that was shown to be fake) and made my determination that around the 500k mark is at least a reasonable estimate.

    Now, now...it's hardly THAT time consuming. And anyhow, it's clear at this point that the organizers of this event don't care whether anyone outside their little fringe movement takes their numbers seriously or not. I mean why else would they have released a 10 year old photo of a Promise Keepers rally and claimed that it was a photo of the 9/12 event?
    Umm... you are aware that photoshopping is different from grabbing a file photo??

    Oh....so you're saying that the DC fire dept, when asked by the media to estimate the crowd size, opted to estimate just part of the crowd.

    Right.
    They were probably asked to estimate the crowd around the stage... which DOES seem to be around the 60-70k range... but there's no way that the video is that small of a crowd...

    Plainly obvious? Sorry but I have looked at the photos and videos....my estimate of the crowd would be in the 30 to 50k range tops. But then I have no real expertise in this sort of thing.

    Nor do you.
    Smoke another one.... or drop your partisan bias for long enough to take an objective look, one or the other is blocking you from seeing reality.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Read what I say.
    I did. Here's what you said:

    "Which he says was "in no way official," and was given before the crowd filled the Capitol grounds, which he described as filling an area which holds 240,000."

    The DC fire spokesman never described the Capital grounds as an area that could hold 240k.

    He said it filled an area which, according to this USA Today article concerning Obama's Inauguration, holds 240K.
    There...that's better. See how easy it is to be honest.

    The USA Today piece also states that crowd estimates are dependent on crowd density. The 240k figure appears to have been specifically slated for the ticketed seating of the Obama inauguration.

    News sources were quoting that number before 11 am.
    Irrelevant. The DC fire quote was from after the rally...note that DC fire didn't amend their estimate. It remains their "unofficial" estimate.

    Anyway, photos do show that the 240K area (and them some) was filled
    Not even. The 240k area in the USA Today map shows densely packed ticketed seating all the way to 4th St. The sparse crowd in your photo barely makes it to 3rd St.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    I looked at the videos and pictures (not the one that was shown to be fake) and made my determination that around the 500k mark is at least a reasonable estimate.
    And the source of your expertise is....?

    Sorry but I'm not impressed by your numbers; even if you did go to such great lengths as to pull them one by one out of your ass.

    Umm... you are aware that photoshopping is different from grabbing a file photo??
    Of course....my point was that if the event organizers didn't care if they were busted for passing off file photos of other rallies, why would they care if they were busted for passing off badly photoshopped photos of the actual event.

    They were probably asked to estimate the crowd around the stage... which DOES seem to be around the 60-70k range... but there's no way that the video is that small of a crowd...
    LOL....so the media in essence said "we don't care how many people are attending this event; we just want to know how many are gathered around the stage".

    You're just being silly now.

    Smoke another one.... or drop your partisan bias for long enough to take an objective look, one or the other is blocking you from seeing reality.
    Let's see...my amateur estimate is pretty much in line with virtually any credible media source as well as the DC authorities.

    Your estimate is a delusional 10 times that. And you accuse me of a partisan bias.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    I did. Here's what you said:

    "Which he says was "in no way official," and was given before the crowd filled the Capitol grounds, which he described as filling an area which holds 240,000."

    The DC fire spokesman never described the Capital grounds as an area that could hold 240k.
    If you had read my posts together, you would have seen exactly what I referring to -- which I said up front. This is weak.


    There...that's better. See how easy it is to be honest.
    I was completely honest. You're being dishonest (or incompetent) in interpreting what I wrote.


    The USA Today piece also states that crowd estimates are dependent on crowd density. The 240k figure appears to have been specifically slated for the ticketed seating of the Obama inauguration.
    Did I say it wasn't? No. In fact, I specifically said exactly that in an earlier post.


    Irrelevant. The DC fire quote was from after the rally...note that DC fire didn't amend their estimate.
    No, it wasn't. They were quoting it on TV before 11 am that day.

    And this ABC news article refers to a tweet from 11:43 am, after the "estimate" was out there and even referred back for confirmation.

    DC ?Tea Party? Crowd Estimate: How Did Thousands Become Millions? - The World Newser


    It remains their "unofficial" estimate.
    Yes. Quite unofficial, one that the guy who provided insists is "unofficial." Doesn't sound like he's standing behind it terribly forecefully. Far less so than you are.

    But the point is, you can cling like a puppy all you want to the lowest number possible, but photographic evidence, and the eyewitness description of the very guy who came up with the number, points to a number much higher.

    So, why are you so invested in keeping the number as small as possible? Hmmm? You guys are saying it makes "our side" look bad by trying to inflate the numbers, but if you're hell-bent on insisting it was lower than it was, it makes "your side" look equally pathetic, and more than a little desperate.


    Not even. The 240k area in the USA Today map shows densely packed ticketed seating all the way to 4th St. The sparse crowd in your photo barely makes it to 3rd St.
    You are either being dishonest or incompetent again, because I already addressed that in my post (#403) above.

    Besides, the crowd pack goes back to 3rd street, and there's still a large mass on PA Ave, as well as people lining the edges of the Mall going at least a few more streets back.

    Given the photographic evidence of the area the crowd covered, and the estimates of those areas' capacities cited in neutral sources, it appears to me that the crowd numbered at least 200,000. This seems entirely reasonable to me.

    But you keep clinging to your lowest number if it makes you feel better. For whatever reason it makes you feel better.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Besides, I gave my methodology, using two different ways of estimating, here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058263465

    And here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058263512

    And both point to 200,000+ at the march.

    So, if you want to refute me, you're going to have to do better than sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "But the DC Fire Department SAID SO!!!!!!!!" Math is math.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    If you had read my posts together, you would have seen exactly what I referring to -- which I said up front. This is weak.
    Hmmm...so in order to understand your point I'm supposed to read your posts "together"? And read between the lines as well presumably. Are there any secret codes I should be aware of?

    Thanx for the heads up.

    I was completely honest.
    No....you were not. You were trying to diminish the credibility of the DC fire dept spokesman.

    And you were busted.

    Did I say it wasn't? No. In fact, I specifically said exactly that in an earlier post.
    Really? Really?

    Where?

    They were quoting it on TV before 11 am that day.

    And this ABC news article refers to a tweet from 11:43 am, after the "estimate" was out there and even referred back for confirmation.
    The quote I was referring to was:

    "But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.
    “It was in no way an official estimate,” he said.
    We asked Piringer whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall, as depicted in the photograph.
    “It was an impressive crowd,” he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, the crowd “only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,” he said."

    PolitiFact | "Tea party" photo shows huge crowd ? at different event

    Note that Piringer is speaking in the past tense. And yet he still stands by the DC fire estimate of 60-75k.

    But the point is, you can cling like a puppy all you want to the lowest number possible, but photographic evidence, and the eyewitness description of the very guy who came up with the number, points to a number much higher.
    Nonsense...the "eyewitness description" points to a small crowd that barely extends to 3rd St.

    You are either being dishonest or incompetent again, because I already addressed that in my post (#403) above.
    No you didn't. This is what I said:

    "The 240k area in the USA Today map shows densely packed ticketed seating all the way to 4th St."

    Where have you ever addressed the fact that the estimate of 240k is specifically tied to densely packed seating that extends all the way to 4th St.? In fact...this is what you said:

    "The Capitol Grounds up to Third Street represents the area in the USA Today article I linked to in the last post as the 240,000 area"

    Liar!

    Given the photographic evidence of the area the crowd covered, and the estimates of those areas' capacities cited in neutral sources, it appears to me that the crowd numbered at least 200,000. This seems entirely reasonable to me.
    Wow...aren't you guys uncomfortable with all those numbers stuck up your rectum?

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    And the source of your expertise is....?
    AGAIN... life experience is not 'expertise' but a generalized skillset... I'm not even caliming a set number of people there... just that both sides are being retards, 60k and 2 million are both EXTREME over and under...

    That's why even my estimate is such a large margin... To say that the video didn't even show enough to fill an average stadium of seats is laughable. I'm sorry.

    Sorry but I'm not impressed by your numbers; even if you did go to such great lengths as to pull them one by one out of your ass.
    I'm not spitting out numbers like I was trying to whip it out for you... get a grip. I have no vested interest one way or the other, although my opinions are in line with much of the views represented at the march (that being the message of small government, no more bailouts, real representation, etc).

    The video was pretty clear that the march stretched out for 6-7 blocks and took up 4 lanes and 2 sidewalks that whole way, and looked like had people pouring into the cross streets as well...



    Of course....my point was that if the event organizers didn't care if they were busted for passing off file photos of other rallies, why would they care if they were busted for passing off badly photoshopped photos of the actual event.
    Were they REALLY believers in their own cause to do something so blatantly to damage that cause?? I could give you 5 precedences of 'agents provocateurs' acting in ways to discredit legitimate protest.

    LOL....so the media in essence said "we don't care how many people are attending this event; we just want to know how many are gathered around the stage".

    You're just being silly now.
    It's not silly when you consider how much money is at risk over this movement taking popular hold over the minds of the majority... not only would it stall Obama's agenda, but many corporations have alot at risk to get his agenda's through.

    But no... all those lobbyists that Obama hired on do't have any vested interests in getting Obama's plan to be successful.

    Let's see...my amateur estimate is pretty much in line with virtually any credible media source as well as the DC authorities.
    Funny how the only 'credible sources' are the ones that agree with you... when even the pictures show a vast number of people present.

    Your estimate is a delusional 10 times that. And you accuse me of a partisan bias.
    No, Glen Becks idea that it was 2 million, AS WELL AS the NYT estimate of 'thousands' are BOTH delusional and go against what can be plainly seen in the film and photos that day.I'm not trying to 'over-inflate' anything... just trying to be realistic

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