Page 41 of 44 FirstFirst ... 313940414243 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 435

Thread: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

  1. #401
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:50 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,268
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    If there's any evidence that the New Left offered an apology to the NPS for their actions, I would love to hear it. As the public record stands, however - it was a perfect example of New Left radicalism using their place, gained rightfully or wrongly, as a way to demonize a very fair and balanced institution.

    Ignoring claims that stipulate: defending the NPS for being moderate and for being a color-blind institution is somehow similar to being against the Million Man March's principles, is bad enough. Yet to continue by saying that both views are those held by the majority of 'them, the conservatives' is blindly radical to a whole new degree that no one, save you, is willing to take. For implied beneath that is can can be against the Million Man March, certainly, but you are using the shallow assumption that one would need to be a anti-black, sexist, fascist of some sort to be against them.

    Which is why, in essence, I'm ignoring such statements. That the people who were defending the NPS were just a selection of rightist, anti-black male, fascists. Regardless of whether they had a record of being centrist, moderate people is not something that can be debated - it is literally, just too radical for rationality to affect.
    "The New Left"(love that term, even if it is basically meaningless) did nothing to NPS. One organization did something. I know this is complicated, so I will take it slow: one group doing something does not mean everyone did something.

    And to continue this logic that seems to go way over your head: just because a few radical people make outrageous statements does not mean that those statements are representative of the mainstream. Just as "birthers" do not represent the right, The Nation of Islam is not representative of the left.

    I know all that is hard to follow, especially since you are unwilling to see what you choose not to, but it is all true, and accurate.



    There exists transcripts of an assortment of 'black leaders,' which are accessible to anyone with an internet connection, stating a wide assortment of statements that basically summarize "NPS is not suited for this role." Which leads me to believe, surprise, that the New Left supports the idea that the NPS should not conduct the census. Now, if those statements had been retracted, or if another vote had been held in the Democratically controlled Senate or House. I'd say you had a point, however - I'm working off the public record while you are offering nothing but what amounts to your personal opinion. Do you have any polls? Any studies?
    And there are any number of examples of people on the right making outrageous claims, which using your logic, that the "New Right" supports the idea that those outrageous claims are accurate.



    This organization did not magically spring up, Congress did not arbitrarily decide to stop "similar controversies" from happening. They required support from their constituencies. Constituencies which were, decidedly, not rightist. Alas, no it is not for a multitude of reasons.
    I am not even sure what you are trying to claim here.

  2. #402
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    10-18-09 @ 10:12 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    56

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Good to know there are so many people that will refuse to accept any information contrary to what fox news or the new york times will say...
    Not sure I'm following you. ...are Glenn Beck and Foxnews not the source of these exaggerated numbers in the first place? I mean, other than you looking at a picture and magically pronouncing the crowd size to be in the upper hundreds of thousands.

    Yes... digital manipulation... it was really 20 people at the even that just photoshopped each other hundres of thousands of times spanning 6-7 blocks + going into the cross-streets along the way.

    Yes, film and video manipulation is possible, but it takes TIME to do that, and especially alot of time if you plan to do it well enough that it isn't plainly obvious even to the non-expert.
    Now, now...it's hardly THAT time consuming. And anyhow, it's clear at this point that the organizers of this event don't care whether anyone outside their little fringe movement takes their numbers seriously or not. I mean why else would they have released a 10 year old photo of a Promise Keepers rally and claimed that it was a photo of the 9/12 event?

    No, I don't think that the fire dept has an agenda, I just think they were ONLY counting the people directly in the area of the stage.
    Oh....so you're saying that the DC fire dept, when asked by the media to estimate the crowd size, opted to estimate just part of the crowd.

    Right.

    What's your problem with accepting something that's plainly obvious in photo and video sources??? Which you clearly won't even look at for whatever reason...
    Plainly obvious? Sorry but I have looked at the photos and videos....my estimate of the crowd would be in the 30 to 50k range tops. But then I have no real expertise in this sort of thing.

    Nor do you.

  3. #403
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:30 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,499

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    The 60-70k estimate is from the DC fire dept....who have at least some expertise at this sort of thing. No offense, but I tend to trust their opinion over yours or Glenn Beck's in a matter such as this.
    Oh, and while I was at it, I decided to look into the DC Fire Department estimate as well.

    Interestingly, from the Politifact article debunking the photo showing a filled mall:

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...fferent-event/

    Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

    “It was in no way an official estimate,” he said.

    We asked Piringer whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall, as depicted in the photograph.

    “It was an impressive crowd,” he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, the crowd “only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,” he said.
    The Capitol Grounds up to Third Street represents the area in the USA Today article I linked to in the last post as the 240,000 area -- though on that map, the 240,000 area contained the first segment of the Mall beyond Third St. HOWEVER, it also had the grounds around Grant's Tomb -- roughly the same size as that segment -- as empty, but the 912 crowd filled it. Area-wise, that's a wash; so the estimate for the area Piringer says the crowd filled is ~ 240K by the USA Today article methodology.

    So, Piringer is the source for the much-quoted "DC Fire Department Estimate," but he's also the source for the area the crowd filled, which I just examined. So, you decide if he's credible or not.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 09-19-09 at 08:44 PM.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #404
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    10-18-09 @ 10:12 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    56

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Oh, and while I was at it, I decided to look into the DC Fire Department estimate as well.

    Interestingly, from the Politifact article debunking the photo showing a filled mall:

    PolitiFact | "Tea party" photo shows huge crowd ? at different event



    The Capitol Grounds up to Third Street represents the area in the USA Today article I linked to in the last post as the 240,000 area -- though on that map, the 240,000 area contained the first segment of the Mall beyond Third St. HOWEVER, it also had the grounds around Grant's Tomb -- roughly the same size as that segment -- as empty, but the 912 crowd filled it. Area-wise, that's a wash; so the estimate for the area Piringer says the crowd filled is ~ 240K by the USA Today article methodology.

    So, Piringer is the source for the much-quoted "DC Fire Department Estimate," but he's also the source for the area the crowd filled, which I just examined. So, you decide if he's credible or not.
    No offense....but I find him more credible than you.

  5. #405
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:30 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,499

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    No offense....but I find him more credible than you.
    Credible at which part?

    The part where he says his estimate wasn't official?

    The part where he describes the area the crowd filled, which according to USAToday holds about 240,000?

    If you don't find me credible, care to point out where my analysis is wrong?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #406
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    The Conservative Part of California
    Last Seen
    04-12-11 @ 03:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    285

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    "The New Left"(love that term, even if it is basically meaningless) did nothing to NPS. One organization did something. I know this is complicated, so I will take it slow: one group doing something does not mean everyone did something.
    That is the term used to distinguish between the Old Left of the Grand, New Deal Coalition and the distinctly less successful New Leftism of the 60's Radicalism. I would suggest you continue to revisit some sources, and try to find something to substantiate that this was done without the approval of your self-identified political coalition. Especially telling is the vote to restrict the funds from the NPS (for census making) in the future - which I, again, suggest you investigate. I certainly do not see some sort of objection from the New Left, or wait - is Congress just 'one organization' that shouldn't be represenative of the wider opinion?

    And to continue this logic that seems to go way over your head: just because a few radical people make outrageous statements does not mean that those statements are representative of the mainstream. Just as "birthers" do not represent the right, The Nation of Islam is not representative of the left.
    So what is representative of the New Left mainstream? Quotes? Sources? Polls? I've asked this a few times, I believe there is a silent and growing consensus that you are fighting an increasingly losing battle against the public record.

    No, the entire New Left is not made out of Black Nationalism and Multiculturalism, yet to say the New Left is not Black Nationalism (or Multiculturualism) is just flat out wrong. What's worse, is to say the New Left gave up their fellow radicals when the going got tough - for that makes them spineless windbags.

    I know all that is hard to follow, especially since you are unwilling to see what you choose not to, but it is all true, and accurate.
    Quotes? Sources? Polls?

    And there are any number of examples of people on the right making outrageous claims, which using your logic, that the "New Right" supports the idea that those outrageous claims are accurate.
    Thank you for admitting that you're wrong.

    And for the record, no, I do not think I'm just as extreme as you are.

    I am not even sure what you are trying to claim here.
    Turn that last sentence into its own paragraph. Should make more sense.

  7. #407
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    10-18-09 @ 10:12 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    56

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Credible at which part?
    Hmmm...that would be the part where he's described as being a spokesman for the DC fire dept, an organization with some expertise at estimating crowd size.

  8. #408
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:30 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,499

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    Hmmm...that would be the part where he's described as being a spokesman for the DC fire dept, an organization with some expertise at estimating crowd size.
    Which he says was "in no way official," and was given before the crowd filled the Capitol grounds, which he described as filling an area which holds 240,000.

    So, if you accept him as the authority on this, you have to accept that, too.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  9. #409
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    10-18-09 @ 10:12 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    56

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Which he says was "in no way official," and was given before the crowd filled the Capitol grounds, which he described as filling an area which holds 240,000.
    Where did he say that filling the Capital grounds =240k?

    Where is it indicated that he made that estimate before the crowd filled the capital grounds?

  10. #410
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:30 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,499

    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    Where did he say that filling the Capital grounds =240k?
    Read what I say. He said it filled an area which, according to this USA Today article concerning Obama's Inauguration, holds 240K.

    Park service changes course, plans to offer crowd estimate - USATODAY.com


    Where is it indicated that he made that estimate before the crowd filled the capital grounds?
    News sources were quoting that number before 11 am.

    Anyway, photos do show that the 240K area (and them some) was filled:

    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

Page 41 of 44 FirstFirst ... 313940414243 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •